The Current, Lamentable State of Hobby Forums

[SacKingsCards]

I feel like I've had this percolating for a couple years (yes, years), but never fully fleshed out what I think is a really sad state for sports card talk, forums, and social media in general. I'll try to keep this focused and intentional, rather than treating it like a rant...sorry if I fail either partially or wholly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think at this point it's fair to say that there has been a total shift of collectors from forums like Hobby Kings, Blowout, Sports Card Forum, etc. to Instagram. I'm sure the impetus for that is multi-faceted:

1. the influx of investor/flipper/breaker/market focused influence into and consequential emigration of card-focused collectors from the forums leading up to and through the pandemic (namely Blowout, since that was the only one still standing at the time)
2. the modern societal preference for social media platforms like Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and Reddit over traditional forums
3. the ability to personalize one's social media experience towards his/her hobby interests (I guess falls under #2?)
4. Probably more, but anything else that comes to mind falls under one of those first two categories

This has had me pondering a couple things (with my basic thoughts on each)
1. Is this bad? Is there a downside to Instagram being the main internet avenue of collector hobby consumption?

I would argue the answer to this is a resounding YES. I think this is frankly awful and sad for collectors and the health of (basketball) card collecting. Kyle touches on this a lot in episode 125 of his podcast on the history of hobby message boards. One of the really good points brought up was that message boards maintained a record and history of the hobby. It's obviously so crucial to be able to look back at past conversations about cards, releases, sets, authenticity, scams, fraud, pricing, markets, trends, etc. I'd highly recommend listening to the episode for more info.

Beyond that, one thing that none of these modern platforms elicit is the long form discussion of forums. If you think about it, is there anything significant that comes from utilizing instagram from a hobby perspective? Of course, you get to see a lot of cards, and efficiently. But is rare that an instagram post includes any information by the poster, and if there are any comments, the few that even contain words rather than emojis won't usually be more than oohs and aahs telling the poster that they have a nice card. Blekh. Such a dearth of anything meaningful or interesting.

2. Does anyone else miss this?
Like, I can't be the only one who feels unfulfilled and bored by Instagram being the only real means of interacting with the hobby online?

3. Should there be a sense of responsibility by (basketball) collectors to invest time and effort into reestablishing forums as a part of hobby culture?
I mean, I'm creating this thread, and doing so on a forum, so obviously I think the answer is yes. But the rationale isn't as ego-centric as it may seem. My rationale comes from looking at the baseball collecting culture. Baseball card collectors are so much more committed and interested in, you know, baseball cards. Do yourself a favor and take some time to peruse the baseball section of Blowout, r/baseballcards on Reddit, or the comments section of some baseball card YouTube videos. All of these are incredibly active, and way more so than the equivalent in basketball cards. Sure, there are probably more baseball card collectors than basketball card ones, but there are surely TONS of basketball card collectors, and for the most part everything outside of Instagram is a relative ghost town. I think the longevity, or even shifting back towards a love of collecting, of collecting basketball cards depends on us being actively involved in discussing cards and our love of them.

As a simple example, on Blowout's baseball card talk section, there are two threads with 222 and 429 replies that are one month and one WEEK old, respectively on the topic of the 2025 Topps Baseball release. I know that Topps flagship baseball is a lot more intricate and nuanced than a Panini Hoops release, for example, but how great would it be to have a place to be able to talk about a basketball release at that depth? Obviously, these are only two of countless threads in the baseball section on Blowout, but I think it indicates a health and passion for collecting by a bunch of baseball card collectors. I think that encourages more people to collect and continue building their passion for collecting.

Anyway, I'm sure there's more I can say, but I think my point is clear (too late, long, and tired for me to revise) and I don't want to beat a dead horse. I'm really interested on some thoughts about these questions and whether or not anyone else shares some of these feelings. Not a small chance I'm just being dramatic. It'd be interesting to have someone with a wider instagram network than myself gather the opinions of a broader audience too, in my opinion.

Happy collecting!

[AbraCalabro]

1. I was actually thinking about this as I began reading the post. I thought back to the crowd that got run off the site and went to IG after Eric got exposed, we know about their history and who they were standing up for, by proxy, standing up for shady dealing. We also know they became some of the biggest talking heads on pod casts, etc. We also know the egregious conflict of interest involving Rat Turner and him grading with PSA, which he runs. We know about various scammers and their markers, so on. We remember a lot of this stuff because we're hobbyists. On IG, it's a safe space for all these people due to complete ignorance as a result of wanting to fit in with the crowds and get attention and sheer human stupidity. They get called out this week and it's all old news next week. You remember more recently, Verona's stolen cards showing up and filth like prizmgawd and hairytrojan (Gerald) not wanting to come to some agreement with Verona? Pretty sure those two knob gobblers are still getting showered with positive attention on IG now. I also think that social media over the years has been shown to attract the lowest common denominator in society, every flimflam artist huckster out there is on social media. There is so much volume on social media, that scandals can fall through the cracks before long, but on the forums, people never forget. Are there cool people on there? Sure, but a lot of interesting accounts stop getting visits after a while and just fade out and also, the exceptions don't change the rules. It's always going to be a self-serving, fast food style, meaningless, vapid display of spending wealth on cards for attention between guys who are trying to shill each other up and rip each other off, then they will go to the National and take a group photo together.

2. Long story short, yes. This forum's attendance sadly reminds me of HK's later days.

3. This is a really interesting point you bring up. If you look at Youtube, you will find that the baseball card guys who make videos make longer, meaningful, information-packed, entertaining videos and they're not all Panini cards. You look at basketball-anything and it's the same influencer retards over and over again, it's almost as bad as Pokemon, but you can find Pokemon videos that are super interesting and I don't even collect that stuff. I.E. look at The Mangini Collection, or Vintage Card Curator. The only halfway decent basketball videos are from 15+ years ago. The majority of basketball is:

I JUST SPENT 100K AT A CARD SHOW AND THEN THIS HAPPENED!!!!!!!!


250K CARD COLLECTION!!!!!!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$


It's all garbage. There are more ass holes in and out of basketball than a mall bathroom on black Friday.

Another thing to touch on is the cost of basketball, it is monstrously overpriced...and the "culture" that has formed around it is all about money, it's all money-centric under the thinly veiled guise of it being about collecting what you like, really it's a popularity contest between people that have too much money and their devout worshippers. And also scams galore. And, finally, the card manufacturers and the NBA itself, relics that don't match the player, lazy, uninspired and creatively bankrupt design, poor, re-used photography and way too many releases that are plagued with the aforementioned problems. I think it will have to get a LOT worse, before it starts to get better and we need to do more gate keeping, sadly, even that won't help, but this post is way too long by now so I won't elaborate. (the time for gate keeping is long expired)

[SacKingsCards]

1. Yeah, the first thing I thought of when making that point about forums maintaining a record of the hobby was the Ebitz/LeBron RPA scandal. But even beyond the bad actors themselves, there's the databases of altered and fake cards that have been chronicled over the last couple decades. Not to mention just valuable info. Info about cards, sets, print runs, how they were released, collectors' stories and their collections. Do you remember Steve's thread sharing every card in his David Robinson collection by year? That sort of thing is gold and literally impossible via instagram.

2. I missed HK's later days, either because it had already died by the time I started collecting or simply never came across it due to its lack of activity. This and our discord truly are the vibe I miss, but you're right about the fact that I wish they were more active. Not that I can talk because I haven't been the most active personally.

3. I'm so glad you brought up the baseball card scene on YouTube, at least in the vintage community. That's exactly the passion I just can't find in basketball cards outside of Wax Museum. My favorite ones that I've come across are MidLife Sports Cards, 4 Collectors For Collectors, and Splendid Sports Cards. Just to illustrate, MidLife published a video yesterday that has accumulated 1,100 views and 60 comments in 24 hours. Just don't know where you can get that sort of thing in basketball. I guess maybe it has to do with the fact that there's just more flipper and money-focused collectors in basketball than baseball? I don't know.

I agree that basketball is kinda crazy overpriced. It's kinda wild that there's really nothing cheap anymore that's a 1/1, on card, pre-Panini, or a nice patch. Like I'm not paying $300 for an end of the bench Kings Mosaic 1/1. Do you feel that affects engagement online? I suppose it does if it affects the number of collectors.

[AbraCalabro]

One point number 1, just to add to it, there were also less people active in sports cards in general. This was a GOOD THING. More knowledge, less people to rip off, or scam, or game, or shill. If you were doing anything of the sort, you'd get called out and people would blow up your spot online. So it was akin to living in a small town. Whereas now it's an overpopulated, expensive city. The records you touched on where not only more complete, but a lot more high quality - same goes for the content, I.E. Steve's thread. The content now is 95% the garbage that I referenced in my earlier post...all fast paced, good for nothing, ephemeral crap.

Point number 2, basically. I actually checked into the discord a few times in the past week and there has been zero activity, lots of members who just checked in a few times and never really showed up again. HK was 'THE' place to be back in what I'd consider the last golden age of sports cards, mid 2000s, although, I myself only lurked nearing 2009/10 so I'd say I also missed the best of times. I only showed up in time to see that scumbag Rare23Air83 and his minions in the nascent stages of their Jordan card price fixing.

Point number 3, the baseball card scene on YouTube is amazing, especially vintage, but unfortunately for me, I couldn't care any less about vintage..........or baseball lol - even Pokemon seems to have had some vibrant hobbyists making great videos, although I have no clue if that's still the case, or if it's been overrun but the same trash as basketball. Getting back to baseball, you'll see guys who show off the cards and talk about them at length, I just wish I cared about the subject material lol. Also it's not as overpriced / overinflated ... even if I can shell out the money for certain cards, I'm just not going to do it.

[SacKingsCards]

I've been watching so much vintage baseball on YouTube even though I feel the same. I don't really care about the vintage cards themselves but man I care about hearing about the collectors and what they collect, how they got into it, their preferences, and the cards themselves. I've probably watched like 10 hours of videos in the last 48 hours about vintage cards and I don't own a single one, but can you imagine watching 10 hours of basketball card talk?

[AbraCalabro]

I've been watching so much vintage baseball on YouTube even though I feel the same. I don't really care about the vintage cards themselves but man I care about hearing about the collectors and what they collect, how they got into it, their preferences, and the cards themselves. I've probably watched like 10 hours of videos in the last 48 hours about vintage cards and I don't own a single one, but can you imagine watching 10 hours of basketball card talk?

I watch a lot of the videos from the guys I mentioned and then some random ones from channels I don't remember. Another issue with a lot of the show off videos is they take 10 minutes to get started and they just ramble on a bunch of nonsense that no one cares about, they're almost clones of one another. Same goes for the I make a point in 15 minutes, when I could've made the point in five minutes type videos.

The information packed ones are great and so are the ones that are show off videos, but they get right into the matter. That said I'd love to see more basketball.

Here's a great one from back in the day, the comments are awful, sort by most recent lol.

[MittenStateCollector]

I've been watching so much vintage baseball on YouTube even though I feel the same. I don't really care about the vintage cards themselves but man I care about hearing about the collectors and what they collect, how they got into it, their preferences, and the cards themselves. I've probably watched like 10 hours of videos in the last 48 hours about vintage cards and I don't own a single one, but can you imagine watching 10 hours of basketball card talk?

Man, what a dream to have someone do a long-form hobby podcast and/or YouTube series that comes in at 2 hours an episode. As long as the host/main narrator keeps things moving along the main topic, I don't mind the asides and slightly-off-topic stories and anecdotes. Those are the types of shows that I love to listen to while mowing the lawn in the summer.

I've thought about launching something that appeals to set builders because I have experience in print journalist (a very old-fashioned career lol) and really enjoyed interviewing and learning from other people when I was in that field. Having a written record of sets (no matter how obscure) is a valuable resource for collectors of all experience levels. But as with many projects though, the biggest barrier for me is time as I have young kids and a lot of my collecting/hobby experiences take a back seat to their needs (as it should be, of course).

[SacKingsCards]

I've been watching so much vintage baseball on YouTube even though I feel the same. I don't really care about the vintage cards themselves but man I care about hearing about the collectors and what they collect, how they got into it, their preferences, and the cards themselves. I've probably watched like 10 hours of videos in the last 48 hours about vintage cards and I don't own a single one, but can you imagine watching 10 hours of basketball card talk?

Man, what a dream to have someone do a long-form hobby podcast and/or YouTube series that comes in at 2 hours an episode. As long as the host/main narrator keeps things moving along the main topic, I don't mind the asides and slightly-off-topic stories and anecdotes. Those are the types of shows that I love to listen to while mowing the lawn in the summer.

I've thought about launching something that appeals to set builders because I have experience in print journalist (a very old-fashioned career lol) and really enjoyed interviewing and learning from other people when I was in that field. Having a written record of sets (no matter how obscure) is a valuable resource for collectors of all experience levels. But as with many projects though, the biggest barrier for me is time as I have young kids and a lot of my collecting/hobby experiences take a back seat to their needs (as it should be, of course).

Yes, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about! Gimme a 2 hour conversation about 80s sets or the evolution of printing plates in basketball cards. I know there have got to be a decent amount of basketball card nerds out there that would appreciate that stuff. I too have thought about maybe launching something, but my biggest barrier to entry to is the logistics, although with two young kids and a third on the way, time would also be a major concern. I'm interested to hear more about this idea of set records. What do you mean by a written record of sets? Sounds like a really valuable idea!

[AbraCalabro]

That would be cool - it would be even cooler if it was by hobbyists for hobbyists instead of the talking head gang.

[AbraCalabro]

Do you guys think that if a database were added to this site that it would help the traffic?

I.E. database of altered stuff, or database of releases so that the patches are documented early on and also a database of complete sets, scanned, with visuals and some information?

Just a thought @mindcycle

[SacKingsCards]

Do you guys think that if a database were added to this site that it would help the traffic?

I.E. database of altered stuff, or database of releases so that the patches are documented early on and also a database of complete sets, scanned, with visuals and some information?

Just a thought @mindcycle

Sadly I don't think so. I don't think there's really anything that needs to be changed to increase traffic. Honestly, I'm a little surprised it didn't catch a little more popularity around launch. I'm not sure if it's the forum logistics such as not being as mobile friendly and quick/convenient as Instagram or if it's just that people for the most part have the communities in the hobby they are happy with and don't feel like they need more or something different. I think it'll take a very intentional campaign to highlight what boards have to offer (conversation, information, resources, card education, etc.) that Instagram doesn't. It just really seems like people are not missing long form card _______.

[mindcycle]

First off, this is a great topic and I hope you don't mind that I moved it to "The Hobby" forum as I feel it fits perfectly with what I created this section for.

1. Is this bad? Is there a downside to Instagram being the main internet avenue of collector hobby consumption?

I first joined IG in early 2018 or somewhere around there after a guy on blowout was encouraging people to sign up and share card photos over there. That was actually a pretty novel idea at the time as posting photos to forums was actually rather difficult if you'd never done it before. I had photobucket, flickr, imagr, etc.. which worked fine once you figured it out, but with IG you select the photo with your phone and post it. It was really easy.

The few years prior to 2020 (and even into mid to late 2020) there seemed to be mostly collectors posting cool cards, refining photo techniques, sharing collections, etc.. Then the talking heads started to show up in late 2020 once the covid boom was in full effect, and it all went downhill after that imo.

Now, that doesn't mean IG can't still be a positive place to share cool cards, but that seems to be secondary to "showing off" cards. Nowadays it seems like more of a popularity contest where the main goal is to post how much money you either spent on cards, or made on cards. It's a far cry from what it was for those first few years.

I would argue the answer to this is a resounding YES. I think this is frankly awful and sad for collectors and the health of (basketball) card collecting. Kyle touches on this a lot in episode 125 of his podcast on the history of hobby message boards. One of the really good points brought up was that message boards maintained a record and history of the hobby. It's obviously so crucial to be able to look back at past conversations about cards, releases, sets, authenticity, scams, fraud, pricing, markets, trends, etc. I'd highly recommend listening to the episode for more info.

Beyond that, one thing that none of these modern platforms elicit is the long form discussion of forums. If you think about it, is there anything significant that comes from utilizing instagram from a hobby perspective? Of course, you get to see a lot of cards, and efficiently. But is rare that an instagram post includes any information by the poster, and if there are any comments, the few that even contain words rather than emojis won't usually be more than oohs and aahs telling the poster that they have a nice card. Blekh. Such a dearth of anything meaningful or interesting.

Agree 100% regarding the Wax Museum episode you reference. I'm also in agreement that with IG and social media in general, long form card discussion essentially disappeared. When you're collecting as an actual hobby you really need that aspect to help with the "collecting for fun" mentality that seems to have largely gone by the wayside in recent years. A large percentage of IG posts are usually followed with zero information about the player, card, set, etc.. Often because the poster probably doesn't even know anything about any of those aspects, they're simply posting the card to either show off how valuable it is or they are trying to sell it.

2. Does anyone else miss this?
Like, I can't be the only one who feels unfulfilled and bored by Instagram being the only real means of interacting with the hobby online?

Well, i'd say I definitely miss it since I created this forum, lol. Albeit 15 years too late.. But yes, I have absolutely felt bored with IG and also have felt overwhelmed by it at times.

Which, apologies in advance for the tangent below..but I feel the need to go into more detail regarding the above statement.. Basically, once the 2020 boom hit and then proceeded to take center stage in 2021/22, I started to get caught up in all the wrong things. Instead of having fun collecting and enjoying card photos, getting new ideas for set or player chases, I started to see just how corrupted the market was/had become. And we all know sports cards (basketball specifically) has always attracted the scammers, pumpers, bad actors, but it was suddenly on a whole new level with the manufactures and larger companies seemingly getting involved as well.. I felt I needed to continue to bring the collectors perspective into focus by calling all this out. That became more of a focus than just having fun. I created story posts almost every time something shady went down, started my YouTube channel to address stuff, and was just caught up in it all. And really no surprise, it burnt me the f out..

Despite all of my efforts has anything really changed? No. In fact, it's just gotten worse now that Fanatics has monopolized the hobby and has put their full focus into what can best be described as forcefully transforming the hobby into a casino. I can't even view, let alone cover, everything they do on a daily basis now. Stuff that is just pushing the hobby further and further away from an actual "hobby". You know.. something you're supposed to do in your free time for fun. Not some pie in the sky get rich quick scheme.

I took a break from IG for a month or so in early 2024 and it was a good "cleanser" if you will. However, when I started getting back on I realized it wasn't enough, so I chose another strategy. I blocked all Topps and Fanatics accounts, dropped or blocked any IG account with profile keywords like "investor", "buy and sell","whatnot", "breaker", etc.. Any talking head account.. blocked. I realized that for myself the less i'm exposed to the side of the hobby that I hate, the more enjoyable it is for me personally.

Now will I stop getting caught up in "hobby drama".. Nope, lol. But i'm also not going in as strong as I was, i'm not even logging into IG daily like I used to. As much as i'd like some of the great collectors I know on IG to get over here and start posting their stuff on the forums, I know it's likely just not happening. But by focusing more on their posts and interesting conversations over DMs and such, it's become much more enjoyable for me as of late.

3. Should there be a sense of responsibility by (basketball) collectors to invest time and effort into reestablishing forums as a part of hobby culture?
I mean, I'm creating this thread, and doing so on a forum, so obviously I think the answer is yes. But the rationale isn't as ego-centric as it may seem. My rationale comes from looking at the baseball collecting culture. Baseball card collectors are so much more committed and interested in, you know, baseball cards. Do yourself a favor and take some time to peruse the baseball section of Blowout, r/baseballcards on Reddit, or the comments section of some baseball card YouTube videos. All of these are incredibly active, and way more so than the equivalent in basketball cards. Sure, there are probably more baseball card collectors than basketball card ones, but there are surely TONS of basketball card collectors, and for the most part everything outside of Instagram is a relative ghost town. I think the longevity, or even shifting back towards a love of collecting, of collecting basketball cards depends on us being actively involved in discussing cards and our love of them.

As a simple example, on Blowout's baseball card talk section, there are two threads with 222 and 429 replies that are one month and one WEEK old, respectively on the topic of the 2025 Topps Baseball release. I know that Topps flagship baseball is a lot more intricate and nuanced than a Panini Hoops release, for example, but how great would it be to have a place to be able to talk about a basketball release at that depth? Obviously, these are only two of countless threads in the baseball section on Blowout, but I think it indicates a health and passion for collecting by a bunch of baseball card collectors. I think that encourages more people to collect and continue building their passion for collecting.

The issue I see with basketball cards and discussing new releases is they are hugely overpriced nowadays and myself and most others I know don't buy boxes any longer due to that. It's hard to get excited about products you'll only ever buy singles of at best. I'd love to see release/set discussion become a thing again, but just not sure it ever will given the price barrier that only seems to be getting high and higher. Maybe some day though.. I'd love to get some of the baseball guys over here but i'm not going to poach them from BO either. Quite simply, i'm never going back to blowout so I really don’t know how to get them over here. Maybe they'll eventually end up here once their threads start to disappear after some talking head comes knocking on Tom Fish's door..

One of my goals for this site has been to try and get back to the "good ole days" of collecting for fun and just sharing card, set, release, knowledge with others. Obviously, with a bit of drama sprinkled in, lol. But mostly just to have a spot to adequately discuss card related topics that seemed to be more the norm when I got back into the hobby in the early 2010's via places like HK and BO.

At this point in time it's mostly us basketball collectors on here it seems. Which I think is because that's what i've always collected and when I started to promote the site that's who I was mainly speaking to on IG and my YT. I'm working on making the site more accessible and mobile friendly. Which it always has been really, but my big mistake when I first launched was the attachment feature was broken so IG users took one look and probably gave up after uploading images didn't work. With that fixed I think it's a much more streamlined experience and one I can promote better which I plan to do in some upcoming videos and whatnot.

But ultimately.. what makes the site great and something people will want to visit is posts like yours, Abra's, and everyone else who has contributed and continues to contribute. So thank you! The more content, the more people will pull it up in Google searches, and the more people we'll convince to get signed up and give it a try.

[benxcrunner1]

Reading these kinds of posts always feels like a much needed detox for my brain from the IG machine. IG just glamorizes money and status. People fawning over people who would slit your throat to make a few bucks. I will never understand why people look up to these so called "dealers'. Like OMG thank you so much for selling me a card I wanted for 50% over the last comp, thank you Mr. Middleman!!

[AbraCalabro]

Reading these kinds of posts always feels like a much needed detox for my brain from the IG machine. IG just glamorizes money and status. People fawning over people who would slit your throat to make a few bucks. I will never understand why people look up to these so called "dealers'. Like OMG thank you so much for selling me a card I wanted for 50% over the last comp, thank you Mr. Middleman!!

Figuratively speaking, you have no idea how on the mark that statement in bold is. Before I got banned from BO, I was chatting with someone regarding a PMG red...one of those high rollers was desperate to buy the card from the seller, so that once he bought it, he could, in turn, jack up the price, to sell it to another well known high roller.

The PMG got sold to a player collector overseas, but the seller described the high end crowd as "incestuous" and he was on the money, no pun intended.

Yeah that high end crowd is awful dude. If you have a card they want, then it's worth next to nothing, but if they have something you want, better take out a second, or third mortgage...and they act like they're doing you a favor, as if they're blessing you by giving you the opportunity to get absolutely railed on the price. Then they'll turn around and say "For the hobby" and "I love helping other collectors," but they only talk that talk.

[benxcrunner1]

I also wonder how these dealers are always getting new inventory, seemingly every few weeks some of these big IG accounts are always showing off their new 100k of pickups. And they aren't getting them from auctions, and they are looking to liquidate the pickups immediately for a profit. Who on earth is selling to them below comps and then who on earth is buying from them above comps....