Collecting Culture by Sport

[SacKingsCards]

I only really collect basketball cards with the exception of additions to my Indians/Guardians PC every now and then, not to mention that I'm not the most active on hobby social media (forums, IG, FB, etc), so I may not have the most accurate picture of collector habits and mindset. Even avoiding the flipper/hype culture of basketball cards, it still feels a lot of the time like basketball card conversations among those who are simply adding to their PCs is about how rare or valuable (now or in the future) the cards are. It seems to me that the basketball card community in general only cares about the rare 90s inserts and parallels, high end RPAs, 1/1s, etc. Maybe similar in terms of certain players as well. MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Curry, Luka. In contrast, It's a small sample size of course, and I think baseball cards are a lot more complex than basketball cards due to the sheer number of players, number of baseball vs, basketball collectors, size of sets, star focus/influence of the NBA, the whole prospect thing, etc, but I found myself on the BO baseball forums and the baseball card subreddit recently and was pleasantly surprised by how focused the conversation was on set, cards, and collections. And again, I'm not all that familiar with baseball cards relative to basketball cards so there could be a lot simply going over my head.

Just to demonstrate, here are some samples from the first page of baseball threads from BO, which I assume is a pretty comprehensively accurate collection of the collecting community...as it is in basketball, in my opinion.

1. 10 page thread on 2023 stadium club release with the last two pages full of people sharing their box breaks and posting their wants for completing sets and rainbows
2. A similar 46 page thread on 2023 World baseball classic release, mostly people posting wants recently. There is some conversation about the cost of boxes and specific cards in there
3. A thread on compiling a 2024 bowman baseball autograph checklist
4. A 4 page thread on 2024 Topps Heritage release debating whether or not it sucks cuz there's no value or because it's awesome even though there's no value
5. 9 page home run challenge cards thread (no idea what this is)
6. Feb Pickups
7. 94 page pitchers hobby thread
8. 9 page "cards that rarely surface thread"

The list got a bit long on me so I left out player threads, team threads, MLB threads, and a couple other random grading/redemptions type threads.

Again, small sample size on just one hobby medium but ultimately it has me wondering: Do different sports have different collecting cultures?

[Hondo]

As a basketball collector only, i'm interested to hear the replies on this thread about the topic. Curious about that as well.

[darz90scardz]

In my experience, out of all sports, basketball is without a doubt the most “hypebeast” heavy. This lends to a disproportionate amount of short term prospecting and value talk over all else.

BO is a small sample size indeed, but it’s more or less accurate. The most consistently bumped b-ball thread literally has a chart/graph emoji in the title. It was technically just started in October, but there was another long running identical thread that had been deleted.

There are still some pickup threads and occasional set design discussion that take place, but they’ve been dwarfed in recent years. I used to browse the baseball and football threads occasionally and the collector base and discussion seemed more diverse there.

It’s funny, because I used to see a lot of posts just clowning on the basketball sub forum in general, even back when set discussion was still prevalent. Maybe the “mature” baseball and football hobbyists don’t even want to bother commenting anymore, lol.

[mindcycle]

In my experience, out of all sports, basketball is without a doubt the most “hypebeast” heavy. This lends to a disproportionate amount of short term prospecting and value talk over all else.

This is spot on. The basketball space was overrun by sneaker and crypto hypebeasts a number of years back and it all just went parabolic during the first 2 years of the pandemic. I also think the global appeal of basketball helped with that as well.

All those guys flipped stuff to themselves and drove prices to stupid levels. Lots of stuff has dropped since it was enviable, but the b-ball card market still has sectors where just a few people are buying up everything . Think 90's parallels, Jordan inserts, etc.. They keep the prices high because you have actual collectors (or just dummies looking to jump on the train) fighting for the scraps. I do see a crash back to reality on 90% of it within the next few years when the buyers eventually aren't there any more. I saw a John Starks red PMG sell for close to 3k last year and just had to laugh.

Another factor is there was (still is) a large chunk of influencers / influencer wannabes who used to collect but once the big money showed up they got on the payroll of auction houses or took sponsorship money to pump up big cards. I often catch their videos on IG and they are almost always talking about overvalued basketball cards. And these guys aren't the Geoff Wilson's of the world who don't know anything about cards. We're talking about guys who used to post on BO for fun who turned into shills for a few extra bucks in their pocket. They have some knowledge, but will say anything for a paycheck so I take most of what comes out of their mouth with a grain of salt. They convinced a lot of newbies to chase 90's stuff and also contributed to the prices going crazy.

Now with the downturn of prices scams are also way way more prevalent. Every time I venture over to IG there's some new scam everyone is reposting. And guess what..? It's almost always an overly hyped (or already hyped w/ value tanking) basketball card being shilled or something like that, lol

[AbraCalabro]

^^^ I wonder who you might be talking about when you refer to people who used to post on BO lol I know of a handful who are shills / work with scummy people / companies

[mindcycle]

^^^ I wonder who you might be talking about when you refer to people who used to post on BO lol I know of a handful who are shills / work with scummy people / companies

I think between you an I we could probably name a good half dozen at least, lol

[SacKingsCards]

I totally agree with basketball historically being the most prominent sport for hyping, but even the super respected people in the hobby (though not sure what makes them respected): cardboard chronicles, chris hoj, real27guy, spinotron, nat, the nubz guy, mkesportscards, etc. These are not hype guys, and I think for the most part they generally have really positive reputations in the hobby. But they're still all about owning the rarest, most valuable cards possible. Now again, it may be the same in the baseball and football worlds and I'm just blind to it because I'm barely in those worlds, if at all. But like darz mentioned, it just seems like baseball exudes collection enjoyment independent of collecting value more. Collecting sets, rainbows, obscurer players, etc.

In regards to current hyping, I've felt like the subject of hype in the last year plus has been young quarterbacks more than young NBA players. Maybe it's because the last two draft classes were underwhelming with their top talent, so we'll see how things shape up with Wemby RCs being released.

[mindcycle]

I totally agree with basketball historically being the most prominent sport for hyping, but even the super respected people in the hobby (though not sure what makes them respected): cardboard chronicles, chris hoj, real27guy, spinotron, nat, the nubz guy, mkesportscards, etc. These are not hype guys, and I think for the most part they generally have really positive reputations in the hobby. But they're still all about owning the rarest, most valuable cards possible. Now again, it may be the same in the baseball and football worlds and I'm just blind to it because I'm barely in those worlds, if at all. But like darz mentioned, it just seems like baseball exudes collection enjoyment independent of collecting value more. Collecting sets, rainbows, obscurer players, etc.

In regards to current hyping, I've felt like the subject of hype in the last year plus has been young quarterbacks more than young NBA players. Maybe it's because the last two draft classes were underwhelming with their top talent, so we'll see how things shape up with Wemby RCs being released.

One of the guys on your list has promoted PWCC auctions of known patch swapped, trimmed, and outright fake cards multiple times. I have a hard time believing he wasn't aware. You can DM me for examples.

In general I think most of the guys you point out are true collectors and I don't have much of an issue if they choose to spends tens or hundreds of thousands on cardboard if it makes them happy. It's more the guys promoting overpriced "big money" cards or fly by night fads that I take offense to, despite likely knowing full well that stuff isn't going to hold up long term. They have no morals IMO.

I do think the popularity of cards has gone to a few of those dudes heads but a simple unfollow on social media deals with that, lol.

[SHowley2003]

Spinotron is the definition of a hype beast. He spends more time promoting himself and his collection than most of the remainder of the hobby combined. Everything he produces is about why his collection is “important”. Anyone that posts multiple floating head videos on social media should have their integrity questioned.

I could go on and on with the influencer stuff. It’s bad and at times fraudulent. I do find the depth of collecting in the baseball side fascinating. We do have to consider that the differences in sports has a huge impact on collecting habits as well. Basketball is a star driven sport unlike any other. Going back to the 80’s it’s always been about the hot rookie and leaders of the league more so than sets or teams. It’s the nature of the beast. The hypers just take advantage of that.

What happens during the pandemic boom was people hyped up basketball then tried to apply those same principles to football, hockey, baseball, Pokémon, Marvel, etc. The result was a huge surge in false values on stuff like Gretzky cards, rookie QBs and Marvel PMGs. A few people took advantage and made huge amounts of money while most people who follow their lead got kick in the crotch.

[AbraCalabro]

I totally agree with basketball historically being the most prominent sport for hyping, but even the super respected people in the hobby (though not sure what makes them respected): cardboard chronicles, chris hoj, real27guy, spinotron, nat, the nubz guy, mkesportscards, etc. These are not hype guys, and I think for the most part they generally have really positive reputations in the hobby. But they're still all about owning the rarest, most valuable cards possible. Now again, it may be the same in the baseball and football worlds and I'm just blind to it because I'm barely in those worlds, if at all. But like darz mentioned, it just seems like baseball exudes collection enjoyment independent of collecting value more. Collecting sets, rainbows, obscurer players, etc.

In regards to current hyping, I've felt like the subject of hype in the last year plus has been young quarterbacks more than young NBA players. Maybe it's because the last two draft classes were underwhelming with their top talent, so we'll see how things shape up with Wemby RCs being released.

I think you named a handful of all-stars in the basketball card iniquity hall of fame there lol, not all of them, but most of them.

I could post a thesis paper on here, but if you want more information, shoot over a PM lol, I don't want to bring any wrong attention to this forum, or have some of those jackasses show up here.

To summarize, one sold out the hobby for his own personal gain, one has been a blood sucking hype man since day one, it's pretty evident what his interests were in his posts: ROI ROI ROI (You could read his posts in the altered LBJ RPA thread if you want a laugh, he is utterly clueless), one's a two face and also benefits from having his own personal grading company and auction house, one works for PWCC and withheld information vital to the investigation that went on in the altered LBJ RPA thread.

On a side note: there was a dude on BO who called out cardbladder for not vetting jack sh!t and of course, the cheer leading squad was out in force, but he was correct. I don't know what ever happened with that thread.

Some of us who have been around long enough know the history behind these individuals, unfortunately, their target audiences are steeped in ignorance. I don't want to say anymore on the public side of the forum, but "if you only knew" your mind would be blown...and by the way, when it comes to the high-end clubhouse, many of these dudes dislike each other with great emphasis, but on stage, they're all ass to ass buddies.

Also what's funny about some of these high end dudes is they hype the prices up so much, but when you actually deal with them they tell you that YOUR prices are sky high, that they don't have that kind of money. They will try to low ball the sh!t out of you. Meanwhile they're spending enough money on cards to finance a real life Jurassic Park and essentially bragging about it.

[kingofsnake]

I'm generalizing here, but I find collectors on the BO Baseball Forum to be mostly older, mostly white and mostly college-educated. There are some smart dudes on there. I was very impressed when some BO members could solve the Ginter code breaking challenge in short time. Although Baseball was my first sports interest, since then I've come to find the game too boring to follow.

Football Forum people I would also say mostly older and mostly white, but not nearly as educated. I admire the fans of hard-luck teams or the collectors of more obscure players. But I feel the vast majority of people buying football cards are losing money, unless you hit on a lowly drafted QB like Brady or Purdy.

Regarding the Basketball Forum, I agree with a lot of your sentiments in that most people on that board are pumpers or trolls. I often wonder whether people on that forum even like basketball. I've blocked several people on there.

[SacKingsCards]

I didn't intend to strike such a nerve

Just was trying to be more specific as to the fact that I wasn't just referencing the shirtless breakers, people selling investment advice, or whatever obnoxious nuisance to the hobby. I'm familiar with most, if not all, of what was referenced, but I'm just confused because all things considered these are the people that 1) have huge followings on social media 2) never have negative things said about them (maybe I need to keep my eyes open more) and 3) are dramatically influencing collectors' opinions as a whole. I'm honestly surprised at all the negativity; I thought I was pretty atypical in my opinions. I've unfollowed most of these guys and find the concept of card ladder ludicrous (i.e. what is the purpose of these indeces that only include the cards that the people in charge consider significant enough to include?)

I do think that basketball being star driven as well as the demographic of each sport's fans plays a huge role.

[AbraCalabro]

I didn't intend to strike such a nerve

Just was trying to be more specific as to the fact that I wasn't just referencing the shirtless breakers, people selling investment advice, or whatever obnoxious nuisance to the hobby. I'm familiar with most, if not all, of what was referenced, but I'm just confused because all things considered these are the people that 1) have huge followings on social media 2) never have negative things said about them (maybe I need to keep my eyes open more) and 3) are dramatically influencing collectors' opinions as a whole. I'm honestly surprised at all the negativity; I thought I was pretty atypical in my opinions. I've unfollowed most of these guys and find the concept of card ladder ludicrous (i.e. what is the purpose of these indeces that only include the cards that the people in charge consider significant enough to include?)

I do think that basketball being star driven as well as the demographic of each sport's fans plays a huge role.

It's a great discussion topic honestly and I'm glad to see others well aware, or becoming aware. I'd agree also with the sentiment that basketball tends to have the most hyped up culture going on, it's a flavor of the week culture. What's the next big investment, etc. Set building is virtually dead in basketball, both in people building sets and the difficulty in building sets due to price. Even if I can pay for the cards, I'm not shelling out thousands just for one card, it's just a waste of money to me.

[mindcycle]

I didn't intend to strike such a nerve

Just was trying to be more specific as to the fact that I wasn't just referencing the shirtless breakers, people selling investment advice, or whatever obnoxious nuisance to the hobby. I'm familiar with most, if not all, of what was referenced, but I'm just confused because all things considered these are the people that 1) have huge followings on social media 2) never have negative things said about them (maybe I need to keep my eyes open more) and 3) are dramatically influencing collectors' opinions as a whole. I'm honestly surprised at all the negativity; I thought I was pretty atypical in my opinions. I've unfollowed most of these guys and find the concept of card ladder ludicrous (i.e. what is the purpose of these indeces that only include the cards that the people in charge consider significant enough to include?)

I do think that basketball being star driven as well as the demographic of each sport's fans plays a huge role.

Haha, all good man. I don't think any of the guys you mentioned above are purposefully trying to go out there and scam people, they are mostly just looking the other way or simply letting ego go to their head. IMO, influence does come some responsibility though. They obviously want the exposure and "celebrity" status so they also need to be able to take the heat on a bad take.

If you want to be excited about a player/set I think that's great. However, when value talk come into play you need to be careful. I see too many guys nonchalantly throw around what could be considered absolutely terrible buying advice on stuff they were\are likely getting paid to promote. That's all well and good, but at least a few of them had enough knowledge that they shouldn't have been so quick to jump on the pump train. We don't hear about the losses like we do the wins, but make no mistake that lots and lots of money was flushed down the toilet during the pandemic. I've heard more than a few of those guys claim that it's up to the individual to take responsibility for themselves, however, if you had been around the hobby long enough to know better but instead chose to pump garbage instead of actively cautioning people, your were doing a disservice to the hobby as a whole. We''ll be digging ourselves out of the hole those guys contributed too for some time to come still and it was likely preventable to some extent if the big voices would have erred on the side of caution rather than promoting FOMO.