The Hobby Boards

Hobby influencers and Fanatics themselves have been starting to promote their new Fanatics Live platform. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing marketing for it everywhere we look.

Breaking has always been it's own little side of the hobby for the most part. A lot of us have probably joined breaks, or are even actively joining breaks today. While there are certainly pros and cons to breaking there's never been a manufacturer directly involved with that side of things. While breaking is still "technically" not defined as gambling, I think many of us would agree that with the amount of money involved and a lot of times the feast of famine like outcomes of breaks, it's about as close to gambling as you can get without visiting a casino.

With Fanatics looking to gobble up all competition in the breaking space just like they've done with licensing, are they essentially trying merge breaking/gambling culture and the more collector focused side of the hobby together? Will this help or hinder future growth of the hobby for those not interested in flipping cards? Will Fanatics or the influencers on their payroll warn our kids about the inherent risks of gambling, or say nothing due to the sports cards industry having no regulation?

The announcement image below says "See you soon collectors!", but are collectors actually their target market?

I'm really interested in getting everyone's thoughts on this.

Fanatics wants to "10x" the hobby.
The amount of people who are real "collectors" is very small.
Pushing the gambling/financial aspect is the easiest way to promote the hobby to people that don't care about cards.

workingclasscards wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:41 pm Fanatics wants to "10x" the hobby.
The amount of people who are real "collectors" is very small.
Pushing the gambling/financial aspect is the easiest way to promote the hobby to people that don't care about cards.

agree. In all reality Fanatics likely doesn’t want us at all. A lot of us buy cards from the secondary market of players who are no longer in the NBA. We buy cards for our PC to likely never sell again. We aren’t into flipping. Etc..

As we’ve seen in and press releases and promotional videos thus far, they aren’t talking to the collector side of the hobby. Depite the using the word “collector” in their above announcement.. They’re promoting to those who first and foremost want to make money off cards, or who have an attraction to the “hustle/grind” lifestyle that’s become popular nowadays. They’ll use celebrities, gambling culture, and cards values to achieve the 10x growth thing.

I guess we’ll see how it all pans out. If the economy continues toward a recession very few within their target market will want to be dropping big money on modern cardboard.

Gambling and sports go hand in hand. Without that concept, the value of cards wouldn't have increased tenfold. We all grew up opening packs of cards which probably introduced us to gambling and some of us probably still continue to do so in search of that thrill of hitting the big one. As much as us collectors want to continue collecting like the old days, it's the daily box breaking, vlogging, and abundance of shows that keep the wheels going for the hobby. I look past the facade and just enjoy the sport/hobby the same way I did growing up.

dengbang wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 2:30 pm Gambling and sports go hand in hand. Without that concept, the value of cards wouldn't have increased tenfold. We all grew up opening packs of cards which probably introduced us to gambling and some of us probably still continue to do so in search of that thrill of hitting the big one. As much as us collectors want to continue collecting like the old days, it's the daily box breaking, vlogging, and abundance of shows that keep the wheels going for the hobby. I look past the facade and just enjoy the sport/hobby the same way I did growing up.

Great point. Busting wax back in the day, even when packs were $2 was certainly a gamble.

I'll definitely continue collecting as I always have, Fanatics won't change that. I guess my biggest concern is the products they start releasing are only propped up by the gambling aspect, the big hits, the big flips, etc.. If that side takes off we may see the quality of other products go down as more and more people gravitate toward the big hit products and the unique and innovative releases get put on the back burner.

I'm also concerned for kids in the hobby. I'm trying to teach my own kids that while it's great that cards have value, that's not the only aspect of collecting cards. The fandom, the unique sets, designs, trading with friends, the community aspect of it, etc.. should all be looked at before worrying about what your card is worth.

From my point of view, collectors are very different from investors and speculators. Strictly speaking every action with low odds are a kind of gambling. I do not have a huge problem Fanatics making ripping sport cards a form of gambling, as long as they make it clear.

Like I have shared at a lot of youtube content, I have ZERO problem any influencer keeps "preaching" people that sport cards is a good investment. But if they are pitching an invetment. Then I believe, like when my RM pitches me a product, other than telling me how I will have a return of 10-15% a year, they have an obligation to: (Yes a 10-15% yield is consider exceptional,10X 20X in 3 months? Those are speculating.)

1: The product must fit my risk profile. (Like I am super conservative you cannot sell anything high risk to me)
2: The risk of the product. Like in terms of sport cards, injury.

I guess everybody here knows where I am going, we are responsible adults whom want a BETTER environment for the hobby and kids. (I hate seeing youtube keep suggesting video of a kid telling me how he 10x his INVESTMENT) And at the same time we accept the reality that, fanatics comes for the money, like what is better to be a casino without the need of a license?

It is just like, in HK, any form of lucky draw is illegal unless you have a license. But most apps games are lottery based and it is an OK. What is worse, any regulations we have for NORMAL businesses do not apply to apps developers. For instances recently Dan talked about the possible stolen redeemed patch and those fake 1/1 NFL patches. If anyone thinks that is a problem, these are my experiences for apps games

1: Once I had around 50k worth of in game currency, because of a glitch I lost everything.
2: Another time, I spent 40k for a lottery character X whom the developers suggested X can do A/B/C. But in reality, X failed to do B/C and when I contacted the developers, this was the exact word of the developers, "Who told you to spend so heavily on X, there are P/Q/R that people usually used, why you have to main X." (Which they had a few promotion for X)

I have contacted first google, nothing, the the government agency, they told me, sadly, the law is not up to dated for dispute like this and this is the reality.

In the end, like I repeatedly suggested, the worse thing is not Fanatics, influencers and so on. It is some of us, the collectors. Like we know BGS failed to gatekeep backdoor cards, PWCC failed to do the first thing any auction house should do (making sure the item being sold is authentic), but if I see a PMG green Penny Hardaway at PWCC market and only asking for $50k and it looks legit will I still click the buy it now? Definitely. It is just like the app games community, we keep complain how EVIL the developers have been, but we whale every event; so in the end, why we they care when money still comes?

I think the golden age for the sports card hobby is long dead and we can slice that in a number of ways.

1. There is no more real competition, nor variety - Hoops, Fleer, Skybox, Upper Deck, Topps, eventually it became Fleer/Skybox, but there was still competition and genuine variety.

2. If you're not abundantly rich, or outright wealthy, this isn't YOUR hobby any more. The more expensive things get, the more weight this statement will hold and it's already heavy enough to have its own gravitational pull.

3. Monopolies, Exclusives, Sticker Autos, Redemptions.

4. Due to being cost prohibitive, collectors may turn to breaks, by turning to breaks, they're enabling the same thing that draws in gamblers, flippers, et al, who are corrosive and destructive to what is already in large part, a dead hobby.

The hobby is Maya Bay. Look it up, you'll understand.

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:27 pm I think the golden age for the sports card hobby is long dead and we can slice that in a number of ways.

1. There is no more real competition, nor variety - Hoops, Fleer, Skybox, Upper Deck, Topps, eventually it became Fleer/Skybox, but there was still competition and genuine variety.

2. If you're not abundantly rich, or outright wealthy, this isn't YOUR hobby any more. The more expensive things get, the more weight this statement will hold and it's already heavy enough to have its own gravitational pull.

3. Monopolies, Exclusives, Sticker Autos, Redemptions.

4. Due to being cost prohibitive, collectors may turn to breaks, by turning to breaks, they're enabling the same thing that draws in gamblers, flippers, et al, who are corrosive and destructive to what is already in large part, a dead hobby.

The hobby is Maya Bay. Look it up, you'll understand.

The hobby has too many adults looking for a come up instead of kids and young adults using the hobby to reminisce on memories. Flipping cards at inflated values or even worse, buying them at inflated values and losing a bunch of money later is probably burning a lot of people out of the hobby. There needs to be more emphasis on PCing players and people collecting what they like. Once people learn the grail cards, their prices, and why they are valuable, they can discern value and not make stupid buys.

ZiggyNo is the only content creator I've seen who's actually been watching Fanatics Live breaks, and he's got some concerns. His biggest issue is with the "Wheel of Bullcrap", which is a live auction for a random team, and as each team is picked, the next random is auctioned off until all the teams are chosen.

This impairs your ability to analyze the checklist and paying a fair price for the average team, and creates bidding wars that hike up the price you pay for the spot.



What this implies to me is Fanatics is going to actively implement freemium video game-style dark patterns to maximize the amount of money they suck out of collectors, making breaking even more of a sucker's game.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone!

I too feel the golden age of collecting is long gone but I may be a bit bias since a lot of my memories are from the late 80 through late 90's when there was a ton of innovation/competition. There's still fun to be found nowadays, but there was nothing like going to the local LCS and buying packs of the latest product for $2/pack and having 5 different manufacturers products to choose from. Not that you can't do something similar nowadays but it's certainly a bit different with only one a single company holding the licenses.

The ZiggyNo video was great. I probably won't ever use Fanatics live so it's great to him covering it and showing everyone how it works.

I think the golden age of collecting is still to come. Cards are cooler, we have more access than we ever did before with ebay and comc etc, theres more knowledge. It's an easy take to shit on fanatics but we should give them a chance... I feel like people tend to complain when any type of change happens. Cards have always been a gamble as far as I can remember - 99.99% of packs I ripped as a kid had cards that weren't worth the paper they were printed on - then at shows you had people gambling on prospects.

I can't tell you how awesome it is to buy a card you never in your wildest dreams thought you had a chance of owning, or even thought the card was a just a rumor as a kid.

I think when we discuss the hobby in general, it is build upon the fact that:

Sports is still a big thing to newer generation.

We have a lot of talks regarding card price and everything, from my point of view, it is like the TCG market. I am quite positive towards Pokemon cards, why? My friends all know TCG is my side business, in these few years, basically EVERY friends whom have kids has asked me this question, "Hey, you do pokemon cards, do you?" Never have I been asked regarding other card games like Yugioh, WS, MTG and so on and so forth. So like we have discussed whether 90s cards will have value in 20 or 30 years. The hobby is pretty much build ON TOP of the next generation's feeling to sports.

I do not know much about how younger generations think about sports, I can again say things like, to those from 90s, they love playing cards they basically growed up with TCG. to 00s, cards was no longer the only things for them, many of them would rather spending money and time on games like like League of Legion or those apps games. (And it factually hit us quite hard)

So, I guess this is why we have a lot of kids influencer telling their peers how to 100x the collection

benxcrunner1 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:37 pm I think the golden age of collecting is still to come. Cards are cooler, we have more access than we ever did before with ebay and comc etc, theres more knowledge. It's an easy take to shit on fanatics but we should give them a chance... I feel like people tend to complain when any type of change happens. Cards have always been a gamble as far as I can remember - 99.99% of packs I ripped as a kid had cards that weren't worth the paper they were printed on - then at shows you had people gambling on prospects.

I can't tell you how awesome it is to buy a card you never in your wildest dreams thought you had a chance of owning, or even thought the card was a just a rumor as a kid.

Great points. Reading what you wrote here I looked back at my own reply and feel I should have clarified it a bit more. For me, by golden age of collecting i'm thinking more of the days when hobbyist were mostly collecting their favorite player or team, there were multiple card manufactures, and things were relatively cheap. Nowadays most collectors seem to be chasing big money cards regardless of player or team, there's only a single manufacturer for licensed cards at any one time, and product costs are absurd.

Am I still having fun? Sure! I too am very happy that I can obtain cards I only ever saw in Beckett. That part of it is great. Also, the online community is awesome in that we can connect with collectors across the world and see the collections they've put together.

This may just be me looking at things with tinted glasses, but I think people collecting for the sake of building curated PCs of players/teams/etc.. are definitely in the minority nowadays. It seems like the majority of what I see on social media are people who "collect" cards, but what they are really doing is chasing card values/grades/filps. They obtain a "grail", post about it on social media, and then it's listed for sale a week later.

All of this is personal option, but to me what's happening right now is far cry from what I personally consider the golden age with cards being more of a hobby where you're spending a few bucks to have fun, instead of dropping thousands to showoff on social media or flip for a profit.

To bring it back around to Fantics, their current marketing strategy seem to be sensationalizing the gambler/hustler mentality, cards being worth lots of money, etc.. because that is what will bring the most attention and keep people spending money buying product. However, like you mention, I am willing to give them a chance. If they offer some low cost and/or innovative products that I can use to get my kids more into collecting for fun then i'm all about that. As of right now i'm not at all impressed with the Fanatics live thing and it feel like the opposite of what we should be doing as a introduction to the hobby for kids or new entrants.

siuwongkee wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:55 pmI think when we discuss the hobby in general, it is build upon the fact that:

Sports is still a big thing to newer generation.

We have a lot of talks regarding card price and everything, from my point of view, it is like the TCG market. I am quite positive towards Pokemon cards, why? My friends all know TCG is my side business, in these few years, basically EVERY friends whom have kids has asked me this question, "Hey, you do pokemon cards, do you?" Never have I been asked regarding other card games like Yugioh, WS, MTG and so on and so forth. So like we have discussed whether 90s cards will have value in 20 or 30 years. The hobby is pretty much build ON TOP of the next generation's feeling to sports.

I do not know much about how younger generations think about sports, I can again say things like, to those from 90s, they love playing cards they basically growed up with TCG. to 00s, cards was no longer the only things for them, many of them would rather spending money and time on games like like League of Legion or those apps games. (And it factually hit us quite hard)

So, I guess this is why we have a lot of kids influencer telling their peers how to 100x the collection

I see a lot of kids walking around shows with pelican briefcases full of graded cards. They appear to be very into flipping cards and the "hustler" lifestyle, "100x your investment" mentality, and that appears to be what garners the most attention for them. There's nothing wrong with that either, just to be clear, but I just have to wonder how that will work out for future generations. Will sports cards continue to grow in popularity to sustain the increase in number of products, and maybe even more importantly, the current secondary market prices people are paying for cards nowadays?

I feel like the term collector has changed. Had an interesting convo with a buddy so credit to him, but he said people don't collect the same, no sets just more of curation. If its not a big card or super rare we don't want it - I'm guilty of this, I have some lower end stuff too but it doesn't get looked at nearly as much as my big cards. Maybe this started with my generation because everyone wanted charizard and didn't care about garbage normal cards, that carries over to sports.

I will absolutely agree that everything is way more expensive - people were spending 5k on kellen mond. If you're patient and discerning I still think you can build a great PC to be proud of.

I also think in 10 -20 years we'll back with some nostalgia for the current products. Like we do for 90s. Over time the cream will rise to the top, the junk will be forgotten. Right now we compare the very best 90s sets and cards to everything panini shits out every year, which isn't really fair - no idea where im going with this but its late and I'm feeling spicy

mindcycle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:24 pm This may just be me looking at things with tinted glasses, but I think people collecting for the sake of building curated PCs of players/teams/etc.. are definitely in the minority nowadays. It seems like the majority of what I see on social media is people who "collect" cards, but what they are really doing is chasing card values/grades/filps. They obtain a "grail", post about it on social media, and then it's listed for sale a week later.

All of this is personal option, but to me what's happening right now is far cry from what I personally consider the golden age with cards being more of a hobby where you're spending a few bucks to have fun, instead of dropping thousands to showoff on social media or flip for a profit.

benxcrunner1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:02 pm I feel like the term collector has changed. Had an interesting convo with a buddy so credit to him, but he said people don't collect the same, no sets just more of curation. If its not a big card or super rare we don't want it - I'm guilty of this, I have some lower end stuff too but it doesn't get looked at nearly as much as my big cards. Maybe this started with my generation because everyone wanted charizard and didn't care about garbage normal cards, that carries over to sports.

I will absolutely agree that everything is way more expensive - people were spending 5k on kellen mond. If you're patient and discerning I still think you can build a great PC to be proud of.

These two points are really great and I think where the dust will settle in regards to the "common collector" moving forward. Like you both mention, even collectors who aren't looking to profit on cards are still chasing the grails and rare cards that will move the needle. I think it's a product of the rise of Instagram culture in the hobby along with Panini's absurd overproduction. Panini releases so many cards yearly, most of which are mostly the same as each other and/or designs from previous years, that the only way to stand out is to pick up super rare, grail type cards. Which to me is the downside of Instagram in the hobby. It has its obvious pros in how user friendly it is and how easy it is to build a stream of posts and users that enhance your hobby experience, but it also has an aspect of hobby status associated with followers, likes, activity, what cards you post, etc. So I do agree that the term collector has shifted away from the act of curating a collection (big or small) of cards of a player/team/set you like to building up your brand in the hobby landscape. I think there's more that can be said about that whole dynamic but it isn't the topic of this thread.

Speaking of which, I'm quite concerned about what Fanatics seems to be building up towards. Fanatics is seemingly building an entire industry monopoly that encompasses manufacturing, transacting, breaking, etc. I'm admittedly not the most informed about what they've done so far or plan to do, but it seems like they want to hold as much of the market share of every aspect of the hobby as possible. Obviously we have seen the negative effects of having only one manufacturer; I imagine that the bigger the amount of the pie Fanatics is able to control the worse off the hobby will be.

mindcycle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:59 pm

siuwongkee wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:55 pmI think when we discuss the hobby in general, it is build upon the fact that:

Sports is still a big thing to newer generation.

We have a lot of talks regarding card price and everything, from my point of view, it is like the TCG market. I am quite positive towards Pokemon cards, why? My friends all know TCG is my side business, in these few years, basically EVERY friends whom have kids has asked me this question, "Hey, you do pokemon cards, do you?" Never have I been asked regarding other card games like Yugioh, WS, MTG and so on and so forth. So like we have discussed whether 90s cards will have value in 20 or 30 years. The hobby is pretty much build ON TOP of the next generation's feeling to sports.

I do not know much about how younger generations think about sports, I can again say things like, to those from 90s, they love playing cards they basically growed up with TCG. to 00s, cards was no longer the only things for them, many of them would rather spending money and time on games like like League of Legion or those apps games. (And it factually hit us quite hard)

So, I guess this is why we have a lot of kids influencer telling their peers how to 100x the collection

I see a lot of kids walking around shows with pelican briefcases full of graded cards. They appear to be very into flipping cards and the "hustler" lifestyle, "100x your investment" mentality, and that appears to be what garners the most attention for them. There's nothing wrong with that either, just to be clear, but I just have to wonder how that will work out for future generations. Will sports cards continue to grow in popularity to sustain the increase in number of products, and maybe even more importantly, the current secondary market prices people are paying for cards nowadays?

Card market is funny, when you ask the question will people keep paying for cards at this rate. Because, frankly, there are at least a few types of thoughts, (But most might be inbetween or shifting from one to one) but for the sake of argument, just assume a persoh is in general closer to one of them and we just simply refer he/she accordingly, collecting sports cards is

1: A hobby
2: An Alt investment
3: An Investment
4: A gambling tools

To 1, usually they are people whom start early before the card increase/decrease a lot in values. To them, they really enjoy the hobby in general, they do not love people buying in and disturbing the eco system of the market. They are usually conservative or skeptical towards new changes from card company. But this school of thougts is rare nowadays, as most people do not love the hobby enough that they would rather they can ENJOY the hobby than capital gain from it.

To 2, these are people whom love the hobby and am open to treating it as an alt investment. (Like watches or arts) To these group of people, they are really in between 1 and 3. They usually want some changes of the hobby, do not mind people profiting from the hobby. As long as they feel the hobby is going a healthy direction. For instance, they will criticize card companies overprinting stuffs, because it is unhealthy for the hobby long term, and they are perfectly fine that card companies print a lot of stuffs as long as supply is slightly lower than demand. (So second hand market is strong)

To 3, they will borrow a lot of theories from econ and finance, trying to argue how financially or economically speaking the hobby is the same as equities, bonds, crypto and so on. These people are bullish towards card price because there is no short selling for cards, especially rarer cards, it is very hard for them to like, you pay me $5000 for a 1997 Tim Duncan Star Rubies, but I will only give you the card 3 months later. (Because I anticipate the card will drop to $3000 in 3 months and I am certain I can get a copy from someone)

To 4, what do you expect from a gambler, you can expect from this type of people.

So if you ask me, whether people will keep buying at this rate depends on which type(s) of people dominate the hobby. 1 is rare nowadays, they treat the hobby as true love, they stay even cards are -10x and they will buy cards at this price if they really like it. For now, I guess most people are shifting to 2 as a result of the market. (For instance, since I only look at 90s cards, people are willing to buy Jordan cards, because it is suppose to be safe, I guess) 3 and 4, I do not know about NFL or MLB, but they will make sure to cash in with Wemby and they HAVE to keep doing some trade to make people believe that the current card price is the right price, it is not crashing, it is just adjusting. They just have to make sure they are not the last one to take the fall. (PSA collectors has done a video of Tom Brady Championship ticket BGS 8.5, I think this is how part of the market is like)

In the end, to me, if someone really takes the hobby as an investment, they have to understand the uniueness of sports card collecting, demand supply is different, card companies have absolute power to manipulate the market. For instance, they will not do it, but can Panini make another Rookie Auto Patch of Luka? Why not? Why cannot they reprint a product? Or defining a product a rookie year of a player. (The market might not receive well, but imagine you keep a 1/10 luka, now there will be another 1/5, 1/15, does it really not mattering your card price?) Furthermore, what about injury and so on. So if someone tells me they are investing sports cards, I will simply ask, really? So how much do you profit from the market crash or adjusting?

SacKingsCards wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:48 am

mindcycle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:24 pm This may just be me looking at things with tinted glasses, but I think people collecting for the sake of building curated PCs of players/teams/etc.. are definitely in the minority nowadays. It seems like the majority of what I see on social media is people who "collect" cards, but what they are really doing is chasing card values/grades/filps. They obtain a "grail", post about it on social media, and then it's listed for sale a week later.

All of this is personal option, but to me what's happening right now is far cry from what I personally consider the golden age with cards being more of a hobby where you're spending a few bucks to have fun, instead of dropping thousands to showoff on social media or flip for a profit.

benxcrunner1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:02 pm I feel like the term collector has changed. Had an interesting convo with a buddy so credit to him, but he said people don't collect the same, no sets just more of curation. If its not a big card or super rare we don't want it - I'm guilty of this, I have some lower end stuff too but it doesn't get looked at nearly as much as my big cards. Maybe this started with my generation because everyone wanted charizard and didn't care about garbage normal cards, that carries over to sports.

I will absolutely agree that everything is way more expensive - people were spending 5k on kellen mond. If you're patient and discerning I still think you can build a great PC to be proud of.

These two points are really great and I think where the dust will settle in regards to the "common collector" moving forward. Like you both mention, even collectors who aren't looking to profit on cards are still chasing the grails and rare cards that will move the needle. I think it's a product of the rise of Instagram culture in the hobby along with Panini's absurd overproduction. Panini releases so many cards yearly, most of which are mostly the same as each other and/or designs from previous years, that the only way to stand out is to pick up super rare, grail type cards. Which to me is the downside of Instagram in the hobby. It has its obvious pros in how user friendly it is and how easy it is to build a stream of posts and users that enhance your hobby experience, but it also has an aspect of hobby status associated with followers, likes, activity, what cards you post, etc. So I do agree that the term collector has shifted away from the act of curating a collection (big or small) of cards of a player/team/set you like to building up your brand in the hobby landscape. I think there's more that can be said about that whole dynamic but it isn't the topic of this thread.

Speaking of which, I'm quite concerned about what Fanatics seems to be building up towards. Fanatics is seemingly building an entire industry monopoly that encompasses manufacturing, transacting, breaking, etc. I'm admittedly not the most informed about what they've done so far or plan to do, but it seems like they want to hold as much of the market share of every aspect of the hobby as possible. Obviously we have seen the negative effects of having only one manufacturer; I imagine that the bigger the amount of the pie Fanatics is able to control the worse off the hobby will be.

I 100% agree. Things have been trending towards a popularity contest / branding and marketing. There's nothing more annoying than being told which cards are the best and also feeling like I need to justify why I like a certain card even though the hobby hive mind doesn't. All I see now are gold kabooms, exquisite, gold prizms, and rare 90s inserts / parallels. I promise there are a lot of cool cards outside the mainstream

benxcrunner1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:37 pm I 100% agree. Things have been trending towards a popularity contest / branding and marketing. There's nothing more annoying than being told which cards are the best and also feeling like I need to justify why I like a certain card even though the hobby hive mind doesn't. All I see now are gold kabooms, exquisite, gold prizms, and rare 90s inserts / parallels. I promise there are a lot of cool cards outside the mainstream

Yeah, it gets a little stale having the same types of cards drooled over while others don't even feel like it's worth sharing some cards that aren't in that realm. I think it's ironic that some of Panini's best looking cards are ones no one cares about and cost nothing.

SacKingsCards wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:14 pm

benxcrunner1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:37 pm I 100% agree. Things have been trending towards a popularity contest / branding and marketing. There's nothing more annoying than being told which cards are the best and also feeling like I need to justify why I like a certain card even though the hobby hive mind doesn't. All I see now are gold kabooms, exquisite, gold prizms, and rare 90s inserts / parallels. I promise there are a lot of cool cards outside the mainstream

Yeah, it gets a little stale having the same types of cards drooled over while others don't even feel like it's worth sharing some cards that aren't in that realm. I think it's ironic that some of Panini's best looking cards are ones no one cares about and cost nothing.

Great points. I too have found plenty of “under the radar” Panini cards to go after. I guess if Fanatics stuff ends up sucking, is too overpriced, etc.. we’ll still have 15 years of Panini stuff to chase.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/A ... eries.aspx

Fanatics Live is partnering with Dude Perfect on a series of live shows featuring memorabilia bidding, interactive giveaways and real-time engagement with fans. Dude Perfect, the five-man entertainment group with more than 60 million subscribers and nearly 17 billion views on YouTube, will host an introductory show tomorrow on the ecommerce platform before its premiere show Wednesday.

Comments on these Twitter posts are pretty funny.

https://x.com/ericwhiteback/status/1737 ... 45021?s=20

https://x.com/BeisbolCardBlog/status/17 ... 74726?s=20

I've vaguely remember hearing about of Dude Perfect a few years back but a few have pointed out that it's a show that a decent number of kids watch. It's looking more and more likely that Fanatics 10x the hobby goal won't be addressing the high cost of entry, the "over-parrallelzation", or the general over production of modern product. It's looking like that push will come in the form of marketing breaking (gambling) to kids to generate that growth. Pretty sad IMO.

I know that "gambling" gets used somewhat loosely when it comes to describing the process of paying for a sealed product and hoping the cards inside are worth enough to justify the price paid for the unopened product, but in a very real, legal sense, breaking can be considered gambling and therefore, may be approaching an inevitable reckoning with the legal system. If not at the National level, at least in US States with attorneys general who take consumer protection seriously.

Generally speaking, for an activity to be considered gambling, it needs a consideration (amount paid by the player to participate), a prize that player is seeking, and an element of chance. If I purchase a pack of cards to open myself, it is not (in the legal sense) gambling, because I knew how many cards I was getting, with that number clearly stated on the pack. I may not have gotten the player I wanted, or a specific insert or parallel, but I wasn't paying for those, I was paying for a number of cards all from the same set.

HOWEVER, if I pay someone to participate in a break where I've purchased a team or player, and I no longer have purchased a guaranteed return, then we have all three elements. We have the fee for the team spot, we have the element of chance now present because my team/player is not guaranteed to be in the product opened, and there is clearly a prize I am hoping to win (cards of that team or player). This is very similar to roulette. I've placed my bet on a specific outcome (getting cards from that team in the break), and I am not guaranteed to win that outcome.

MittenStateCollector wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:59 pm I know that "gambling" gets used somewhat loosely when it comes to describing the process of paying for a sealed product and hoping the cards inside are worth enough to justify the price paid for the unopened product, but in a very real, legal sense, breaking can be considered gambling and therefore, may be approaching an inevitable reckoning with the legal system. If not at the National level, at least in US States with attorneys general who take consumer protection seriously.

Generally speaking, for an activity to be considered gambling, it needs a consideration (amount paid by the player to participate), a prize that player is seeking, and an element of chance. If I purchase a pack of cards to open myself, it is not (in the legal sense) gambling, because I knew how many cards I was getting, with that number clearly stated on the pack. I may not have gotten the player I wanted, or a specific insert or parallel, but I wasn't paying for those, I was paying for a number of cards all from the same set.

HOWEVER, if I pay someone to participate in a break where I've purchased a team or player, and I no longer have purchased a guaranteed return, then we have all three elements. We have the fee for the team spot, we have the element of chance now present because my team/player is not guaranteed to be in the product opened, and there is clearly a prize I am hoping to win (cards of that team or player). This is very similar to roulette. I've placed my bet on a specific outcome (getting cards from that team in the break), and I am not guaranteed to win that outcome.

Great points here. I could see things getting regulated pretty quickly once the right people catch wind of what’s happening. I guess time will tell, but I agree that we have all elements of gambling clearly happening with breaks nowadays.

lol - another blow to the hope that Fanatics would do right by the hobby. Monopolies are garbage anyway. I'm not surprised. It would be great if the feds, or someone else, stepped in here, but I still wish the same would happen to the license monopoly.

#growingthehobby #invest #whodoyoucollect #icollectmoney