The Hobby Boards

From what I understand, the initial reception was not overwhelming and the cards were not that valuable. Does anyone know how they rose to their current status?

can't sell my PMG for shiet, might have to go to auction on this bad boy, I keep reading about how they're so popular, but I've yet to experience that reality

they rose to current status because some rich guys started paying a lot of money for them, that may seem curt, but that's the short and sweet of it

Abra, do you remember more about their initial reception?

Curious over what period time they gained such popularity. Based on the data on cardladder, the football at least, really took off in 2021 and were not expensive at all in 2019 - but I hear basketball were already pricey?

benxcrunner1 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:17 pm Curious over what period time they gained such popularity. Based on the data on cardladder, the football at least, really took off in 2021 and were not expensive at all in 2019 - but I hear basketball were already pricey?

I asked the same question. Some collectors have been chasing sets and for any product that supply is below 90, a few big fishes and a few medium fishes have changed the pricing. Especially when the Kobe green was sold for 2m in 2022 it defined the set to be THE iconic set of the 90s.

I believe using Jordan e-x2001 now (# to 9) were sold for 50k in 2019, it is save to say, everything takes off since 19. And for collection, the value of anything has always been determined by the market and for 90s parallel, the market is extremely small. But it is safe to say, both supply and demand are strong for PMG. (Many are cashing their PMG in these 2-3 years)

But if you see the current sales of Jordan 97 PMG and CPMG. (Despite both cards are not the best grade) You can see that even the biggest fishes are not looking for MORE. (Like they are content with having 1/2/3 in their collection)

Deadshot wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:51 pm Abra, do you remember more about their initial reception?

Beckett listed them as hyped / desirable cards and I even recall a scan/pic of the article in Beckett which talked about their popularity at the time, of course, back then, Beckett WAS the hype engine. They reported a sale for one of the green MJs in the 9k range.

However, in the mid-2000s the prices had dropped by nearly half, with a couple sales in the 5k range and one in the 6k range, "almost half" is a considerable drop. This was discussed in the thread on the Censorship Forums which revolved around the altered MJ green that nat turner ended up purchasing for 300k+

I think I posted the link for the 6k sale which was a Hobby Kings thread, but that forum has been defunct for a few years, so no dice there and buybuyMJ reported the two 5k range sales in that same thread as well. There were others who also chimed in who recalled that the PMG cards had dropped in interest and price MASSIVELY. You could see them on eBay all day, every day, there was nothing remarkable about them. You fast forward to around 2010/11ish and nat turner and wegotstock99 are fighting over these cards, these are the only two big fish fighting over these. The hype men at the time which, included Rare23Air83, his cronies, and gonblott took notice of this and they started to discuss these cards as if they were the second coming. This is ground zero for the status quo today when it comes to PMGs. I know people have accused me of being a conspiracy theorist, or making stuff up, but this is simply me relating my observations when all this activity was live. Additionally, I'm not the only one that remembers this clearly, some other OGs may still be around and for those who are still around, they remember this, they know it's true.

When I posted evidence that gonblott was hyping these cards up, to the extent that he predicted the end price on a Kobe PMG, no one on Censorship Forums batted an eyelash and one of the PBM burner accounts facetiously asked if gonblott had any more future picks / predictions. The genesis of the market today is built largely on people like nat turner throwing their money around publicly and also the parasitic hype men. When rare23air83 sold his 97/98 gold diecut embossed refractor /74 to nat turner for 18k+, that was the one sale he needed to legitimize his line of B.S. and hype.

Keeping the hype going is directly stemming from these guys protecting the money they have parked in cards. Circling back to Beckett writing about these cards being hot, the thing is, Beckett has done that with a lot of cards / parallels, but is was the PMG cards that nat and wegotstock fought over, so that's why we're here now...and 9k closer to product release is a far cry from 300k+ when nat bought his altered copy and 300k+ is a far cry from where they would presumably be now.

I hope this is what you were looking for, if you want ancient screen shots, let me know. People lie, but the screen shots don't.

Great recap Abra. I still think the base cards look much nicer than the red/greens.

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:38 pm I think I posted the link for the 6k sale which was a Hobby Kings thread, but that forum has been defunct for a few years, so no dice there and buybuyMJ reported the two 5k range sales in that same thread as well. There were others who also chimed in who recalled that the PMG cards had dropped in interest and price MASSIVELY. You could see them on eBay all day, every day, there was nothing remarkable about them. You fast forward to around 2010/11ish and nat turner and wegotstock99 are fighting over these cards, these are the only two big fish fighting over these. The hype men at the time which, included Rare23Air83, his cronies, and gonblott took notice of this and they started to discuss these cards as if they were the second coming. This is ground zero for the status quo today when it comes to PMGs. I know people have accused me of being a conspiracy theorist, or making stuff up, but this is simply me relating my observations when all this activity was live. Additionally, I'm not the only one that remembers this clearly, some other OGs may still be around and for those who are still around, they remember this, they know it's true.

Some names that I haven't seen mentioned in awhile, thanks for taking me down memory lane. Part of the reason I didn't join BO before 2012 was because of these things, I spent my time on HK since it was more collector friendly.

dengbang wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:09 pm

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:38 pm I think I posted the link for the 6k sale which was a Hobby Kings thread, but that forum has been defunct for a few years, so no dice there and buybuyMJ reported the two 5k range sales in that same thread as well. There were others who also chimed in who recalled that the PMG cards had dropped in interest and price MASSIVELY. You could see them on eBay all day, every day, there was nothing remarkable about them. You fast forward to around 2010/11ish and nat turner and wegotstock99 are fighting over these cards, these are the only two big fish fighting over these. The hype men at the time which, included Rare23Air83, his cronies, and gonblott took notice of this and they started to discuss these cards as if they were the second coming. This is ground zero for the status quo today when it comes to PMGs. I know people have accused me of being a conspiracy theorist, or making stuff up, but this is simply me relating my observations when all this activity was live. Additionally, I'm not the only one that remembers this clearly, some other OGs may still be around and for those who are still around, they remember this, they know it's true.

Some names that I haven't seen mentioned in awhile, thanks for taking me down memory lane. Part of the reason I didn't join BO before 2012 was because of these things, I spent my time on HK since it was more collector friendly.

You are from HK also !!!!!!!

siuwongkee wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:01 am You are from HK also !!!!!!!

Yes, it was a sad day when deekin, member who ran the site, decided to close the site. Before HK was the Beckett forums.

dengbang wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:09 pm Some names that I haven't seen mentioned in awhile, thanks for taking me down memory lane. Part of the reason I didn't join BO before 2012 was because of these things, I spent my time on HK since it was more collector friendly.

HK was great for a while, I remember lurking on there for the longest time. I saw some really neat cards there and learned about all the stuff I missed out on when I had quit back in the late 90s. I eventually joined the site late, but by then it was sort of a ghost town. It was basically me and probably five other people

Started going to crap when Jun and his cronies were heavily active on there, but they were on Censorship Forums (BO) as well. Good times otherwise. Sports cards will never be the same, the mid 2000s were the final golden age of sports cards as a hobby.

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:02 am HK was great for a while, I remember lurking on there for the longest time. I saw some really neat cards there and learned about all the stuff I missed out on when I had quit back in the late 90s. I eventually joined the site late, but by then it was sort of a ghost town. It was basically me and probably five other people

Started going to crap when Jun and his cronies were heavily active on there, but they were on Censorship Forums (BO) as well. Good times otherwise. Sports cards will never be the same, the mid 2000s were the final golden age of sports cards as a hobby.

It was a great place full of knowledgeable collectors minus the drama.

The hobby in general was stagnant for about a year or so before HK completely shut down, so there wasn't many new posts. Economy wasn't doing that well prior so I'm assuming many people sold or stayed put. I believe the information from the site was retained offline though, I could be wrong, it's been a decade lol

Those were definitely some great days, probably the end of an era for in person trading. I'm sure kids still do it nowadays but it's just not the same when you're holding a cellphone in hand looking at comps haha

I also think PMG's are special to those in my age range (43) because we grew up in the junk wax era. The idea of there just being 10 or 100 of a card is still personally kind of mind-blowing. I remember around that time something limited to "just" 10,000 was considered special. So PMG's represent a chance to get the rarity of modern cards but from the sets and players we loved when we were younger. They look pretty cool too, in my humble opinion. My favorite card I've ever held was a Michael Jordan 1997 PMG Red. Pictures just can't do justice to how vibrant they are in person.

dengbang wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:14 pm

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:02 am HK was great for a while, I remember lurking on there for the longest time. I saw some really neat cards there and learned about all the stuff I missed out on when I had quit back in the late 90s. I eventually joined the site late, but by then it was sort of a ghost town. It was basically me and probably five other people

Started going to crap when Jun and his cronies were heavily active on there, but they were on Censorship Forums (BO) as well. Good times otherwise. Sports cards will never be the same, the mid 2000s were the final golden age of sports cards as a hobby.

It was a great place full of knowledgeable collectors minus the drama.

The hobby in general was stagnant for about a year or so before HK completely shut down, so there wasn't many new posts. Economy wasn't doing that well prior so I'm assuming many people sold or stayed put. I believe the information from the site was retained offline though, I could be wrong, it's been a decade lol

Those were definitely some great days, probably the end of an era for in person trading. I'm sure kids still do it nowadays but it's just not the same when you're holding a cellphone in hand looking at comps haha

I remember reading that the site was archived offline, but I think this place can actually fill that void. I was one of the small handful of guys still posting on HK before it went bye bye, it will be missed for sure. I do remember back in those days you could freely post what you were looking for, whether building sets, or rare cards for player collectors. You didn't have to worry about someone jacking up the price on you just to bleed you dry back then, a lot of guys were happy to help each other out. Things were better when sports cards was a sleepy little hobby.

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:46 pm I do remember back in those days you could freely post what you were looking for, whether building sets, or rare cards for player collectors. You didn't have to worry about someone jacking up the price on you just to bleed you dry back then, a lot of guys were happy to help each other out. Things were better when sports cards was a sleepy little hobby.

Cards were being gifted all the time back then. I agree that thehobbyboards could potentially fill that void as well. Should do a secret Santa or something haha

The upside to the hobby nowadays is the abundance of card shows we can attend. Definitely more active and buzzing daily.

Wait when you guys say HK. It does not mean Hong Kong !!!!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahaha

ScottWrightMN wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:46 pm I also think PMG's are special to those in my age range (43) because we grew up in the junk wax era. The idea of there just being 10 or 100 of a card is still personally kind of mind-blowing. I remember around that time something limited to "just" 10,000 was considered special. So PMG's represent a chance to get the rarity of modern cards but from the sets and players we loved when we were younger. They look pretty cool too, in my humble opinion. My favorite card I've ever held was a Michael Jordan 1997 PMG Red. Pictures just can't do justice to how vibrant they are in person.

I guess when we ask the question we wonder what "extra reasons" for the hype. I got a 1999 issue of Beckett. In those days 1997 PMG belonged to a low tier parallel. But now PMG/CPMG is sitting at the throne. So why it is doing better than sets that USED to be having more attentions.

Besides maybe it is just me, PMG, supposed to be being dynamic with all the planets and stars but many of the cards are quite boring, eg, Tracy Mcgrady is the best example. The only wow cards from my point of view is MJ and Penny. Put things otherwise, the set reminds me of the video game NBA Jam, it should be explosive but not many of the cards have the appeal.

Maybe my initial post was wrong, I guess basketball PMGs were a big chase card for collectors right from the initial release. Although no where near there current prices, it does explain a lot.

dengbang wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:14 pm I believe the information from the site was retained offline though, I could be wrong, it's been a decade lol

Those were definitely some great days, probably the end of an era for in person trading. I'm sure kids still do it nowadays but it's just not the same when you're holding a cellphone in hand looking at comps haha

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:46 pm
I remember reading that the site was archived offline, but I think this place can actually fill that void.

I can confirm it was archived offline, at least as of a couple years ago.

siuwongkee wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:52 pm I guess when we ask the question we wonder what "extra reasons" for the hype. I got a 1999 issue of Beckett. In those days 1997 PMG belonged to a low tier parallel. But now PMG/CPMG is sitting at the throne. So why it is doing better than sets that USED to be having more attentions.

Besides maybe it is just me, PMG, supposed to be being dynamic with all the planets and stars but many of the cards are quite boring, eg, Tracy Mcgrady is the best example. The only wow cards from my point of view is MJ and Penny. Put things otherwise, the set reminds me of the video game NBA Jam, it should be explosive but not many of the cards have the appeal.

The perception isn't an accurate representation of the market for them. I'm telling you, I can't sell mine unless I allow the buyer to steal it. Unless there is a rich guy who wants to build the set, you're not going to make a good sale, even if the card is graded. That has been my experience with a card of an All Star. Don't buy the hype.

benxcrunner1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:18 am Maybe my initial post was wrong, I guess basketball PMGs were a big chase card for collectors right from the initial release. Although no where near there current prices, it does explain a lot.

Metal was low end / mid-range when it was released, not a higher end product.

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:43 pm

siuwongkee wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:52 pm I guess when we ask the question we wonder what "extra reasons" for the hype. I got a 1999 issue of Beckett. In those days 1997 PMG belonged to a low tier parallel. But now PMG/CPMG is sitting at the throne. So why it is doing better than sets that USED to be having more attentions.

Besides maybe it is just me, PMG, supposed to be being dynamic with all the planets and stars but many of the cards are quite boring, eg, Tracy Mcgrady is the best example. The only wow cards from my point of view is MJ and Penny. Put things otherwise, the set reminds me of the video game NBA Jam, it should be explosive but not many of the cards have the appeal.

The perception isn't an accurate representation of the market for them. I'm telling you, I can't sell mine unless I allow the buyer to steal it. Unless there is a rich guy who wants to build the set, you're not going to make a good sale, even if the card is graded. That has been my experience with a card of an All Star. Don't buy the hype.

benxcrunner1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:18 am Maybe my initial post was wrong, I guess basketball PMGs were a big chase card for collectors right from the initial release. Although no where near there current prices, it does explain a lot.

Metal was low end / mid-range when it was released, not a higher end product.

To me. I am very honest, I am not a huge fans of 1997 PMG. I think CPMG and 1998 PMG are better sets. Green ones, another thing as they are limited to 10. So I can see the appeal for some big fishes want to collect both for some players. (Like if I have money I will try finding the rarer sets of e-x2001 now/future)

I guess many seeing the sports card crash and decide to cash out with their PMG. I mean 2k-3k for a normal players is insanely good price. There is a Grant Hill PSA 8 Star Rubies Team Skybox looking for 2.5k only.

benxcrunner1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:18 am Maybe my initial post was wrong, I guess basketball PMGs were a big chase card for collectors right from the initial release. Although no where near there current prices, it does explain a lot.

The green one is. The red I think was not very popular.

I don’t remember a time they were not popular and expensive. Beckett wrote an article about how stupid the set was (base set) but that couldn’t be further from the public perception in NY. All the kids and teens loved it. The PMG’s were a myth to most and the low print run added to the allure. Remember pre-internet, if your friends or card shop doesn’t have it, it may not exist. There were rumors about a green one but “Peter from down the block is always lying so I don’t know if I could believe him.” That was pre-internet talks.

We were hyped over a little dumb red logo on the 96 Rubies. Imagine seeing a PMG glowing out of a pack.

siuwongkee wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:48 pm Wait when you guys say HK. It does not mean Hong Kong !!!!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahaha

That's funny - I knew you meant Hong Kong, but also that people may misunderstand. I lived in Hong Kong for a period of time too.

kingofsnake wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 6:57 pm

siuwongkee wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:48 pm Wait when you guys say HK. It does not mean Hong Kong !!!!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahaha

That's funny - I knew you meant Hong Kong, but also that people may misunderstand. I lived in Hong Kong for a period of time too.

So HK is a forum right?????