Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:59 pm
by siuwongkee
From my memory, this set has always had issue of greening. (I remembered I traded my Kobe for some Walker card because I did not think it looked decent) But when I mentioned I was not very happy with the surface grading (Because basically every card I see is having the same issue but some are having very good surface grades), someone told me, when THOSE were graded (maybe in the 90s) they were not like that, as a result recent BGS grades reflected the fact of how these card go from not greening to greening. (But this is not how I believe things are) So anyone can share some more info on this?
These are from my collections in the 90s
This is the second card I bought since I came back
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 7:50 am
by AbraCalabro
I think up to 98, all the Chromium technology cards have discoloration issues. This is the sole reason why I stay away from most Finest and Chrome cards. I sold off basically all my earlier release refractors, which is sad because the earlier releases from the 90s are superior in design to the stuff that came later. 93/94 and 94/95 are my favorite years for Finest, what a shame. I wanted to build the whole refractor set for both years at one point, then when I realized they will all go bad, I didn't want to spend any money on them.
By 98 they resolve the problem for the most part, but there are a few insert sets, Roundball Royalty and I think Topps 40 which still had issues, but I don't remember if Topps 40 was 97/98 or 98/99.
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:01 am
by mindcycle
Yeah this can happen to all refractor cards from 93-97 like Abra mentioned. Wax Museum Podcast had one of the Topps designers on an old episode (maybe a year ago or more?) who said it's due to chemicals in the manufacturing process reacting with each other to produce that greening effect. I have tons of cards from that time period and some are definitely worse than others.
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:10 am
by Deadshot
mindcycle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:01 am
Yeah this can happen to all refractor cards from 93-97 like Abra mentioned. Wax Museum Podcast had one of the Topps designers on an old episode (maybe a year ago or more?) who said it's due to chemicals in the manufacturing process reacting with each other to produce that greening effect. I have tons of cards from that time period and some are definitely worse than others.
Here's the clip you're referring to!
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
mindcycle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:01 am
Yeah this can happen to all refractor cards from 93-97 like Abra mentioned. Wax Museum Podcast had one of the Topps designers on an old episode (maybe a year ago or more?) who said it's due to chemicals in the manufacturing process reacting with each other to produce that greening effect. I have tons of cards from that time period and some are definitely worse than others.
Here's the clip you're referring to!
Woah! Self promotion!!! You're BANNED, pal!
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
mindcycle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:01 am
Yeah this can happen to all refractor cards from 93-97 like Abra mentioned. Wax Museum Podcast had one of the Topps designers on an old episode (maybe a year ago or more?) who said it's due to chemicals in the manufacturing process reacting with each other to produce that greening effect. I have tons of cards from that time period and some are definitely worse than others.
Here's the clip you're referring to!
Thank you. But I think this year's Gold Refractors are having the worst outcome? Maybe they try to make it GOLD and it turns out greening even worst? I mean like the set of refractors 94 I suppose, some are still pretty decent.
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
mindcycle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:01 am
Yeah this can happen to all refractor cards from 93-97 like Abra mentioned. Wax Museum Podcast had one of the Topps designers on an old episode (maybe a year ago or more?) who said it's due to chemicals in the manufacturing process reacting with each other to produce that greening effect. I have tons of cards from that time period and some are definitely worse than others.
Here's the clip you're referring to!
Thank you. But I think this year's Gold Refractors are having the worst outcome? Maybe they try to make it GOLD and it turns out greening even worst? I mean like the set of refractors 94 I suppose, some are still pretty decent.
That’s exactly right, and it’s still an unanswerable question.
Jean MacLeod had mentioned in an interview how only certain areas of their acetate card sheets were faulty, and that any copy that hasn’t discolored by now won’t in the future. This was a Skybox designer, so it’s not like she had Topps manufacturing process insight, but maybe the greening is less/takes longer depending on how much of a certain dye was used. Like already mentioned, greening was completely fixed by 98-99 except for Roundball Royalty, so maybe they used the “untainted” stuff in spurts prior to that time just by happenstance. Who the hell knows, really, but I’ll hold onto any false hope I can.
I was very close to buying the Penny /74 a little while ago but decided against it since it was an especially discolored copy. Really sucks, it figures this plagues one of my favorite sets more than almost any other. I love the silver embossed /263 too, so at least they’re less affected.
Also, another fun aside regarding some of these self-proclaimed experts out there. There’s a guy on social, let’s just say he really likes refractors, who completely screwed up the greening timelines and kept insisting he had examples from unaffected years. Asked said guy for pics, said guy did not give pics, I lol’ed.
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Thank you. But I think this year's Gold Refractors are having the worst outcome? Maybe they try to make it GOLD and it turns out greening even worst? I mean like the set of refractors 94 I suppose, some are still pretty decent.
That’s exactly right, and it’s still an unanswerable question.
Jean MacLeod had mentioned in an interview how only certain areas of their acetate card sheets were faulty, and that any copy that hasn’t discolored by now won’t in the future. This was a Skybox designer, so it’s not like she had Topps manufacturing process insight, but maybe the greening is less/takes longer depending on how much of a certain dye was used. Like already mentioned, greening was completely fixed by 98-99 except for Roundball Royalty, so maybe they used the “untainted” stuff in spurts prior to that time just by happenstance. Who the hell knows, really, but I’ll hold onto any false hope I can.
I was very close to buying the Penny /74 a little while ago but decided against it since it was an especially discolored copy. Really sucks, it figures this plagues one of my favorite sets more than almost any other. I love the silver embossed /263 too, so at least they’re less affected.
Also, another fun aside regarding some of these self-proclaimed experts out there. There’s a guy on social, let’s just say he really likes refractors, who completely screwed up the greening timelines and kept insisting he had examples from unaffected years. Asked said guy for pics, said guy did not give pics, I lol’ed.
I had been thinking for awhile before buying the Hardaway from Ebay. In the end, I convince myself, this is not greening, just a vintage filter
Regarding experts. Recently PTCG JP graded market has some manipulation (all largest shops refuse to buy graded PTCG cards for a few days) and people are crying because they listen to the EXPERTS and borrow money for cards. In the end, if someone tells me he is an EXPERT, I will ask for his qualification. Like if he can show me records he bought Curry cards in 2009 when they were dirty cheap and sold them at 21 and so on and so forth.
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:19 pm
by thesportcardking
I've been looking at some of these golds, after a Hakeem specifically. I've yet to see any that have no greening but certainly varying stages of the discoloration.
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:42 am
by MAMASCOOKINPC
YES. ALL OF THEM. ALL THE GOLD AND SILVER EMBOSSED REFRACTORS ARE GREEN. THIS IS ONLY FOR THE REFRACTORS. NON EMBOSSED OR EMBOSSED NON REFRACTORS HAVE CLEAN NON GREEN EXAMPLES OUT THERE
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 11:37 am
by darz90scardz
MAMASCOOKINPC wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:42 am
YES. ALL OF THEM. ALL THE GOLD AND SILVER EMBOSSED REFRACTORS ARE GREEN. THIS IS ONLY FOR THE REFRACTORS. NON EMBOSSED OR EMBOSSED NON REFRACTORS HAVE CLEAN NON GREEN EXAMPLES OUT THERE
There’s a very, very small percentage of gold embossed refs that haven’t discolored. Medstudent2101 on IG used to post YT videos of tables full of them and the odd copy wasn’t greened. But yea, still, good luck finding any.
The silver embossed refs are a bit easier to find ungreened. Maybe it’s just because there’s 3 times as many copies as the golds, but they are definitely prone as well.
My penny for reference only has a slight hint of greening. Had sold a 9.5 that was hulked out.
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:29 pm
by MAMASCOOKINPC
You are right Darz. I have a silver embossed marbury with very minimal hulking. I also have about 5 other copies that are completely green. Comparing similar print runs to the gold refractor non embossed that year, it’s night and day in terms of hulking. It’s probably like 5% of the embossed refractors stayed true in color where as the non embossed are probably 60%. It’s just super rare to find.
Re: Are 1997 Finest Gold Embossed Refractors always green like this?
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:36 pm
by dengbang
I gave up on finding non discolored copies of the /74 gold embossed refractor a while back. Owned a few that ultimately changed colors during my time of ownership. Kept it in a cool area, mostly out of the light, and in top loaders with penny sleeve but that didn't stop it from greening. Might have slowed the process but all changed to a faded green.
This is an interesting story of Nat's copy that was posted today: https://youtu.be/FE0P67__P38
At the 38:20 mark is where the story begins.
