Is there anything from the 90s that's currently "worth it" ?

[AbraCalabro]

Everything I look at, venturing into "new to me sets" is so freaking high. Any one else just having second thoughts about "pulling the trigger" when they see cards they like, or have been looking for? Maybe it's just me.

Skybox 3D...what the F happened to this one lol.
Warp Zone is neat...but wow on the prices for something that isn't a social media darling.

Just saying...

[darz90scardz]

Because of the lack of serial numbering on 90% of inserts, people have really been diving deep into pack and player specific pack odds. Maybe this has been at least a small contributor? Because I’ve noticed the same with set prices that not long ago were more attainable.

It’s cool for more people to discover new sets this way but it’s obviously a downside for a c’lectah. We’ve had the added benefit of already having a rough idea on what were rare pulls from collecting at release, guess this is just what happens with others. I get it but yea. Less cardz5me.

[mindcycle]

Yeah i'd say in the last 6 months or so i've only won a single 90's card on eBay. Prices have definitely gotten pretty out of hand.

I think it's a combination of new (returning?) entrants that grew up in the 90's wanting these cards, and certain cards/sets getting pumped on social media. For the less known/pumped sets it could also be the first category of people getting priced out of the more popular cards and searching for something else they can buy, thus just bringing up prices on 90's cards in general.

I still go after my set needs but i've been "pre"-sniping everything with a max bid using gixen.com. I'll throw in what I consider a reasonable bid and if I don't win it, oh well.. I'm not paying "IG showoff" prices lol

I've gotten more into 2000's era sets/parallels nowadays tbh. Generally cheaper and the pumpers haven't hit many of the cool 2000's stuff. Yet..

[dengbang]

Agree with everything being said so far. I haven't won or traded for a 90s insert in a long time. I've wanted to add a 1997 Skybox Premium Thunder and Lightning MJ but even with the common surface issues, they are still selling for a couple thousand dollars...

I think people are just moving their money around to different sectors of the hobby. There was Prizm, then RPAs, Kabooms, and now its 90s. It's a falling knife and unless you had these cards to begin with, don't bother buying it right now. Most of us have seen which cards had the most hobby love and it sure ain't a 1998 NBA Hoops Starting Five Parallel. Even the newly coveted 1996 Credentials weren't a grail card for most collectors.

There's a ton of new money coming in but they're just following what others are doing, hoping to make some money. If it were a collectors market, having jersey pieces that have no association with any player or event would not slide. We'd have pitch forks out ready to storm Panini HQ.

It's tough if you're solely a 90s collector but there's plenty of cheaper cards of current players to buy if you still watch/enjoy NBA basketball.

[SacKingsCards]

I can't comment on the prices of 90s stuff because I don't collect a lot of (or really any) 90s, but I hope anyone that collects 90s can find affordable ways to add great cards to their collections. One example that might not be for everyone: the Jason Williams Stadium Club RC auto I posted in the mailday thread. I couldn't find a reasonable price on a parallel to that base card, so I paid a fraction of what was listed, and I believe what I'd have to pay to get one, to get an autographed version. I know not everyone likes IP autos, but if you're creative, you may be able to find something that works for you. I'll still look out for a parallel, but I certainly won't feel as pressured to pay up for it.

I've gotten more into 2000's era sets/parallels nowadays tbh. Generally cheaper and the pumpers haven't hit many of the cool 2000's stuff. Yet..

That's exactly what I was hoping to make the overlooked cards thread for! *hint hint*

[siuwongkee]

I only buy 90s parallel, low to mid ends I suppose. Are they worthy? Honestly, I do not know. I can only say, it MUST BE better than spending 50-80k a year on apps game for the last 10-15 years. (99% of those apps shut down already) I can only parallel buying cards now with buying Yugioh OCG, almost EVERY purchase you did in the past 10 years,due to Konami's business model, you are lucky if you can retain the value, and most of the time a 30-50% drop of the card value. (In the end TCG is more complicated, because card value is also relative to whether the card is useful at a meta. ) And to me I am ok with this as long as I ENJOY the process. (I put collecting at the entertainment for my budget)

So what will I feel, for intsance, I got 3 copies of Tim Duncan Profiles 3 at $2400 (a BGS 9.5) $1500 and $1600 (BGS 9) and now the market tanked and a BGS 9's market value is $500? I mean, since I have the experience of playing apps game, I feel like, I do not mind that, if I am still collecting (which I doubt I will keep collecting for other reasons) I will buy every freaking copy I see at $500. (I am actually buying more copies if it is around $1000 - $1800).

Why? Because, maybe this is just me, 97 and 98 parallels are historical. (They are THE 2 best years for parallels, maybe I am wrong since I do not have a lot of interest in parallels of 90s stars in the 00 eras, I suppose 00 is the relic eras with a lot of RPA and Auto and so on) Like if you ask me if the 1997 Championship Rodman PMG worth 40k? My answer is YES because we have not seen that on the market and we know for certain there are only 50 copies and we do not know how many are active. (And I am quite sure, if the second appears, some people will buy it to make sure 90s card market looks good)

What I think not worth it about 90s parallels are the not so limited copies with a PSA 10. Most of the collectors rank a PSA 10 of a card with at least 400 copies than a PSA 9 card with 50/100 copies and I think it is a belief people are preaching. And it only make sense if grading is consistent, transparant and up to date. Like using Timmy Profiles 3 as an example, we see a PSA 10 sold for $5k, but it is heavily chipped at the corners. (It might be a 10 but it is not a 10) The same things go with the Finest Embossed Refrators, people pay higher for a higher grade with more greening than a lower grade with less greening.

[AbraCalabro]

Bumping this one up since I haven't been paying attention until recent. Some cards / players seem to have TANKED and you're getting some choice cards of these players at auction. BIN are still overpriced compared to auction sales prices from what I've looked at over the past two days.

Have you guys been tracking anything and how is it looking for you?

I see that Star Rubies are retarded expensive now, guessing some trust fund baby is building the sets?

I only buy 90s parallel, low to mid ends I suppose. Are they worthy? Honestly, I do not know. I can only say, it MUST BE better than spending 50-80k a year on apps game for the last 10-15 years. (99% of those apps shut down already) I can only parallel buying cards now with buying Yugioh OCG, almost EVERY purchase you did in the past 10 years,due to Konami's business model, you are lucky if you can retain the value, and most of the time a 30-50% drop of the card value. (In the end TCG is more complicated, because card value is also relative to whether the card is useful at a meta. ) And to me I am ok with this as long as I ENJOY the process. (I put collecting at the entertainment for my budget)

So what will I feel, for intsance, I got 3 copies of Tim Duncan Profiles 3 at $2400 (a BGS 9.5) $1500 and $1600 (BGS 9) and now the market tanked and a BGS 9's market value is $500? I mean, since I have the experience of playing apps game, I feel like, I do not mind that, if I am still collecting (which I doubt I will keep collecting for other reasons) I will buy every freaking copy I see at $500. (I am actually buying more copies if it is around $1000 - $1800).

Why? Because, maybe this is just me, 97 and 98 parallels are historical. (They are THE 2 best years for parallels, maybe I am wrong since I do not have a lot of interest in parallels of 90s stars in the 00 eras, I suppose 00 is the relic eras with a lot of RPA and Auto and so on) Like if you ask me if the 1997 Championship Rodman PMG worth 40k? My answer is YES because we have not seen that on the market and we know for certain there are only 50 copies and we do not know how many are active. (And I am quite sure, if the second appears, some people will buy it to make sure 90s card market looks good)

What I think not worth it about 90s parallels are the not so limited copies with a PSA 10. Most of the collectors rank a PSA 10 of a card with at least 400 copies than a PSA 9 card with 50/100 copies and I think it is a belief people are preaching. And it only make sense if grading is consistent, transparant and up to date. Like using Timmy Profiles 3 as an example, we see a PSA 10 sold for $5k, but it is heavily chipped at the corners. (It might be a 10 but it is not a 10) The same things go with the Finest Embossed Refrators, people pay higher for a higher grade with more greening than a lower grade with less greening.

I understand your perspective, but I don't think I can agree on some of the prices for the 90s stuff, I.E. Rodman PMG 40k. I also think that a Profiles 3 even at 500 is excessive, but I can agree that they're some of the best looking cards, ever. These are nicer than any / all PMG cards for instance. Nicer than Rubies too.

[siuwongkee]

I think the market is still crazy for 97/98 parallels. Below is my HONEST opinion base on my love of checking price of 97/98 cards that sold more than $2000 from card ladder almost daily.

First, one thing I am waiting to see is, we saw 2 EC now from Baseball and Football were going crazy. Dan Marino 8/8 at 108k and Nomo 12/12 60k and there is a Rodman 1/5 on Goldin and soon an Iverson 2/3 on Heritage. These cards are likely not mulipulated like the 97/98 Rubies. And many collectors are silently getting them through private sale or trade. So I wonder if EC will get more attention with some recard sales. (Spinotron might finally show everybody EC is better than the 97 PMG red and green, who knows)

Low grade 97 PMG Red is getting cheaper so it shows us the fact that 90 copies is too much for the market. I bought 1 Ray Allen 1998 PMG @10k and 1 @6.6k, I feel like, once things are at Goldin/Fanatics the price will be unreasonable. In the end, my take is, 97/98 parallels, not many people are like me, coming back in these 2 years, most of the collectors are from 2016 onwards so they had a good reserve of cards that they can trade/sell and so on.

[AbraCalabro]

I think the market is still crazy for 97/98 parallels. Below is my HONEST opinion base on my love of checking price of 97/98 cards that sold more than $2000 from card ladder almost daily.

First, one thing I am waiting to see is, we saw 2 EC now from Baseball and Football were going crazy. Dan Marino 8/8 at 108k and Nomo 12/12 60k and there is a Rodman 1/5 on Goldin and soon an Iverson 2/3 on Heritage. These cards are likely not mulipulated like the 97/98 Rubies. And many collectors are silently getting them through private sale or trade. So I wonder if EC will get more attention with some recard sales. (Spinotron might finally show everybody EC is better than the 97 PMG red and green, who knows)

Low grade 97 PMG Red is getting cheaper so it shows us the fact that 90 copies is too much for the market. I bought 1 Ray Allen 1998 PMG @10k and 1 @6.6k, I feel like, once things are at Goldin/Fanatics the price will be unreasonable. In the end, my take is, 97/98 parallels, not many people are like me, coming back in these 2 years, most of the collectors are from 2016 onwards so they had a good reserve of cards that they can trade/sell and so on.

Essential Credentials ending at those prices is sheer lunacy, but it seems some trust fund babies are wanting to build the set if that's the true ending price, 108k is crazy. I don't find Credentials from 97+ to be collectible at all because there are two 1/1 cards, very bad idea from Fleer/Skybox, it's just a dead end for every one except the guy who has both 1/1 cards. Not very collectible at all, but I agree they are 100% better than PMG which are ugly, even the base are ugly.

Also for EC, the non 1/1 parallels are also too limited, /2, /3, /4 and so on, it's all a bad idea.

The good thing about an attractive card like the Profiles 3 is they are /100, so very reasonable and also very collectible, modern prices are still too expensive, but overall, the cards are superior to EC, PMG, Rubies.

Goldin/Fanatics really are poison, sports cards are just going in the wrong direction. 2016 even then the prices were crazy, wayyyyyy too expensive even then. After 2009 the decline of the hobby had started unfortunately.

[siuwongkee]

I have discussed else where. The 2 1/1 had make this set like the one ring. But if you collect a certain ot so crazy players, like for eg Ray Allen, the set looks awesome. I discussed with the collector having this set, I admire his determination.

When I talk about cards in 2016, I mean something like, the Jordan EC now was 50k. It is like bitcoin in at $5k. But I do not see there are any rooms for 97/98 parallel to increase drastically in the next ten years. (And other than MJ/Kobe, things will get worse in 20, 30, 40 years for other HOFers)

The current market is like people talk about 1/1 Wemby at 500k they always refer to the fact that 2003 LBJ RPA was a few thousand? Or for 97 cards MJ PMG was 10k (?). But I do not see in 20 years, any cards from today will become 100X. Because it already crosses the boundaries of other collectibles for the very rich.

[AbraCalabro]

I have discussed else where. The 2 1/1 had make this set like the one ring. But if you collect a certain ot so crazy players, like for eg Ray Allen, the set looks awesome. I discussed with the collector having this set, I admire his determination.

When I talk about cards in 2016, I mean something like, the Jordan EC now was 50k. It is like bitcoin in at $5k. But I do not see there are any rooms for 97/98 parallel to increase drastically in the next ten years. (And other than MJ/Kobe, things will get worse in 20, 30, 40 years for other HOFers)

The current market is like people talk about 1/1 Wemby at 500k they always refer to the fact that 2003 LBJ RPA was a few thousand? Or for 97 cards MJ PMG was 10k (?). But I do not see in 20 years, any cards from today will become 100X. Because it already crosses the boundaries of other collectibles for the very rich.

The cards look cool, but the fact that the set is so impossible to build makes it unappealing. My position is, "why bother?" too limited and too expensive, just no fun.

I used to think the same way about the market, but we should not underestimate the unlimited greed of the top people in sports cards who are mostly selfish business men pretending to be hobbyists and also we should not underestimate the vast, unending stupidity of the masses who will believe everything they say. Cards (even the top cards) should not be in these price ranges, but they kept going up and up and up artificially, it's always a fake, or a staged, or planned sale to get people looking and believing and once they believe, the market has been effectively changed for the worst.

LeBron RPA was a fraction of the cost, then there was a planned, or staged sale to fix the prices and it worked and now you see the insane prices it went to.

[mindcycle]

I’ve been selling at lot of my non-Nuggets rubies and PMGs. Mostly role players or semi stars. I like the cards, but when commons are going for $1500+ it’s time to cash in.

Personally I just don’t see the hype on that stuff lasting much longer. The top guys chasing those sets are either finished or getting close. That means less hype on social media, less people caring as much. IG and the like is mostly what’s driven prices up imho.

Plus, when the generation of collectors who grew up in the 90’s fade out who’s going to be paying big bucks for guys like Jamal Mashburn, Cedric Ceballos, Juwan Howard.. just to name a couple I’ve seen sell recently in the $1500-$2k range.

[siuwongkee]

To me, since I am still collecting, I care little about value, even all the cards drop 90% it is still better than nearly 1m USD I spent on app in the last 10 years. But what I can sincerely say regarding the card price:

"If anyone takes 90s card as an investment, it is ver likely a problem when they need the money most. (Like in 30/40 years from now)"

Why? In 30 years, we are in the 60s/70s/80s and medical bills and other bills coming and we decide to sell the card. First, the demand other than MJ/Kobe will be weak. Just imagine you are into pop star autograph, other than Elvis Presley, who other singers can you name in the 1950s? And will you spend a fortune on their autograph? Second, the supply will be higher because a lot of us will be gone and people inherit the cards will likely sell them.

So, to me, I am actively buying 97/98 cards. But it is like I like it, I do not really care if they go up and will feel sad if they go down. (But then I will feel, opps I can buy more)

Whether it is a scam or stage. I feel like, if Bitcoin can goes to 100k, this shows the world is like that. I take cards as collectibles, I understand people always love to manipulate the market for the gain and when they say they love the hobby, it usually only means when the hobby is giving them profit. The same logic applies to Trading card game. A lot of people say they love the game, they complain there are flippers and card price are too high. But when supply is enough and the card value drops, they refuse to keep playing and jump ship to other games that are both playable and can make them a small fortune.

[AbraCalabro]

I’ve been selling at lot of my non-Nuggets rubies and PMGs. Mostly role players or semi stars. I like the cards, but when commons are going for $1500+ it’s time to cash in.

Personally I just don’t see the hype on that stuff lasting much longer. The top guys chasing those sets are either finished or getting close. That means less hype on social media, less people caring as much. IG and the like is mostly what’s driven prices up imho.

Plus, when the generation of collectors who grew up in the 90’s fade out who’s going to be paying big bucks for guys like Jamal Mashburn, Cedric Ceballos, Juwan Howard.. just to name a couple I’ve seen sell recently in the $1500-$2k range.

I was thinking the same way years back but the hype machine just kept chugging along. Every time I think prices are going to take a dump I just go look at eBay and I'm reminded of the hysteria and sheer lunacy.

IG is definitely a huge part of the problem, guys who have a lot of money are hungry for attention and the best way to be immortalized and venerated is to spend a ton of money on sports picture cards. The whole thing is a racket, that's why I'm in doubt when it comes to prices ever coming down.

I've also seen a massive surge in the cards I have in my PC and I've let go of the ones I'm either certain I can buy back at a later time, if I even care to, or the ones that don't really mean that much to me. I just don't think I'll ever get past 2009 prices before the fixing got started, this is back when it was still a solid hobby and not a racketeering (ex BO members, whose names I won't mention ) wet dream.

To me, since I am still collecting, I care little about value, even all the cards drop 90% it is still better than nearly 1m USD I spent on app in the last 10 years. But what I can sincerely say regarding the card price:

"If anyone takes 90s card as an investment, it is ver likely a problem when they need the money most. (Like in 30/40 years from now)"

Why? In 30 years, we are in the 60s/70s/80s and medical bills and other bills coming and we decide to sell the card. First, the demand other than MJ/Kobe will be weak. Just imagine you are into pop star autograph, other than Elvis Presley, who other singers can you name in the 1950s? And will you spend a fortune on their autograph? Second, the supply will be higher because a lot of us will be gone and people inherit the cards will likely sell them.

So, to me, I am actively buying 97/98 cards. But it is like I like it, I do not really care if they go up and will feel sad if they go down. (But then I will feel, opps I can buy more)

Whether it is a scam or stage. I feel like, if Bitcoin can goes to 100k, this shows the world is like that. I take cards as collectibles, I understand people always love to manipulate the market for the gain and when they say they love the hobby, it usually only means when the hobby is giving them profit. The same logic applies to Trading card game. A lot of people say they love the game, they complain there are flippers and card price are too high. But when supply is enough and the card value drops, they refuse to keep playing and jump ship to other games that are both playable and can make them a small fortune.

In 30 years I'd agree completely no one will care so much, if at all. I am also on board with you on all the other sentiments, but as of now, it seems most 90s are not worth it. Many sellers got the false impression that all 90s cards are worth thousands, but either they are delusional or they are not interested in actually selling the cards.

Below are some examples of the hype fallout, but as long as anything is hyped, then people will continue to list like this. When compared to auction sales, the auction sales go for a fraction of these listings, obviously some examples are more egregious than others. I have seen this before and then prices will jump back up when some wealthy buyers decide they want to show off sales prices, build sets for attention, etc. Sometimes I really believe that prices will never normalize unless the big money goes away for ever. COMC is 10 times worse.

A few examples of the hysteria and delusion are attached ranging from completely deranged to ignorant of the market

[dengbang]

Kids who grew up in the 90's are roughly in our 30's and 40's right now. Disposable income is there but the economy is completely different now so it is possible that we see some money being thrown at 90's cards again in 10 years. The fact that MJ was part of the 90's boom is enough to prop up that entire market. As much as I'd like see more affordable cards for us 90's collectors, there's a lot of reasons as to why that won't be the case. We all dream we could go back to those pre 2019 prices but that's just wishful thinking.

[AbraCalabro]

Kids who grew up in the 90's are roughly in our 30's and 40's right now. Disposable income is there but the economy is completely different now so it is possible that we see some money being thrown at 90's cards again in 10 years. The fact that MJ was part of the 90's boom is enough to prop up that entire market. As much as I'd like see more affordable cards for us 90's collectors, there's a lot of reasons as to why that won't be the case. We all dream we could go back to those pre 2019 prices but that's just wishful thinking.

That's where I'm leaning, but the racketeering nature of anything hobby related these days is the primary motivator for why I'm leaning in that direction even more than the availability of disposable income.