The Hobby Boards

With the market downturn post covid boom showing no signs of letting up, the predictions "influencers" made in 2021 failing to come to fruition, shill bidding becoming more and more rampant, are we nearing the end of the sports card influencer? It seems in the past few months we've seen a few of the bigger names pop up in news stories and YouTube videos after being caught doing something shady. A lot of these incidents seem to involve shill bidding, however, there have also been cases of outright fraud like what we saw with the whole Cardporn scandal awhile back. viewtopic.php?t=1296

This Sport Card Radio video details the most recent shill bidding incident from the Sport Card Therapist.



I had taken a break from IG and social media so I didn't catch this one when it first happened, but if you don't want to watch the video here's a quick rundown..

• Sports Card Therapist places high bids on two Eli Manning cards, wins both, then doesn't pay.
• This is discovered by the second highest bidder (modestcardcollection on IG) after getting a second chance offer on one of the cards which he then bought and paid for.
• Afterwards the seller informed him who the winner/non-payer was.
• Turned out to be the SCT guy.

So ok.. you win a card you can't afford. I think owning up to that and either attempting to pay, or just apologizing would probably be enough, but apparently this guy decided to make a 9 minute video trying to justify it. But here's the real kicker.. he then proceeded to DELETE his eBay, YouTube, and all of his podcasts.. Was it because the reaction to his apology video didn't go as expected? Was he just fed up with the hobby? I guess we'll never know, but that definitely looks pretty bad IMO.

This kind of extreme reaction may remind you of another "influencer" who deleted all of his social media accounts.. viewtopic.php?t=1296

Here's another influencer, Shaiway vlogs, who was also caught shill bidding recently. The interesting part of this story is other collectors/influencers were then sticking up for his actions. It's almost as if they think this behavior should be given a pass, or worse, accepted in the hobby. It really makes no sense to me.



In addition to shilling efforts, we also have to consider influencers who told us the card market would go back up having to eat their words this year and likely next. Possibly even longer out than that for some of the cards that were the most hyped during the boom.



Will collectors continue listing to guys who joined the hobby in 2020 and didn't really know (or potentially made up) what they were telling people? Are the recent shilling efforts just a handful of guys who over leveraged themselves trying to dig out of a hole? Will the market actually go back to or surpass the levels we saw during the boom?

Thanks for reading and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for sharing these, I also have been off of social media for a while so was not familiar with either of these. Shaiway doesn't surprise me because his aura always struck me as a "in it for the brand/money/following", but SCT surprised me a bit. I didn't really listen to his podcast (maybe one episode?) or follow him on instagram, but from the way I heard people reference him, it seemed like he was a better apple. Again, I didn't have much direct experience with him and one mistake does not a person make, but his erasure of his entire hobby presence seems to indicate that occurrence wasn't a one off.

To address the larger question, I don't think the time of the sports card influencer is near over at all. I think as long as instagram is the main hub of hobby interaction, sports card influencers will be there. Now, they won't fit the mold of those from the boom, and they probably care actually a lot more about cards and the hobby than those from a couple years ago, but I think a lot of the "prominent" collectors right now are not all that different from sports card influencers. They still dictate what's popular and the opinions of others, whether intentional or not. For better or for worse, I think it comes with the territory of anything in which the interaction is Instagram-centric.

SacKingsCards wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:06 amTo address the larger question, I don't think the time of the sports card influencer is near over at all. I think as long as instagram is the main hub of hobby interaction, sports card influencers will be there. Now, they won't fit the mold of those from the boom, and they probably care actually a lot more about cards and the hobby than those from a couple years ago, but I think a lot of the "prominent" collectors right now are not all that different from sports card influencers. They still dictate what's popular and the opinions of others, whether intentional or not. For better or for worse, I think it comes with the territory of anything in which the interaction is Instagram-centric.

Yeah you are likely right. Wishful thinking on my part I suppose.. lol. Great points overall though.

In a way, we can say anyone who shares cards online could potentially be influencing others, thus they might just be an "influencer". So viewed in that context we've always had them. However, when most think of an influencer in today's environment, they are probably referring to the guys making content who are trying to get the most eyes on their YouTube, IG, etc.. The guys trying to get sponsorships. But more important, they guys who ultimately have something to sell. That could be a break, repack, high end card(s), or just trying to get others to buy into cards as an "alt investment" or whatever their angle might be. I wouldn't put the average collector who's collecting for fun and maybe selling or trading on occasion into that same category, but that's just my opinion of course.

That said, I do agree we still have a few more years (at least) where these guys will remain relevant. Especially with the Fanatics takeover where they will likely be heavily leaning on the more known influencers to help push their brand. My hope is the community as a whole can better differentiate the grifters from the collectors. From what I’m seeing that’s starting to happen and it makes me happy to see.

mindcycle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:38 pm
Yeah you are likely right. Wishful thinking on my part I suppose.. lol. Great points overall though.

In a way, we can say anyone who shares cards online could potentially be influencing others, thus they might just be an "influencer". So viewed in that context we've always had them. However, when most think of an influencer in today's environment, they are probably referring to the guys making content who are trying to get the most eyes on their YouTube, IG, etc.. The guys trying to get sponsorships. But more important, they guys who ultimately have something to sell. That could be a break, repack, high end card(s), or just trying to get others to buy into cards as an "alt investment" or whatever their angle might be. I wouldn't put the average collector who's collecting for fun and maybe selling or trading on occasion into that same category, but that's just my opinion of course.

That said, I do agree we still have a few more years (at least) where these guys will remain relevant. Especially with the Fanatics takeover where they will likely be heavily leaning on the more known influencers to help push their brand. My hope is the community as a whole can better differentiate the grifters from the collectors. From what I’m seeing that’s starting to happen and it makes me happy to see.

Not sure if it's wishful thinking on your part, over-cynicism on my part, or a bit of both

I think you're right that we're heading in the right direction. I don't wanna call out specific people, but I feel like podcasts, IG lives, stories, and even posts are content that are not all that different than what we've seen before. Sure, there's less people selling some sort of product or service, but I still see lots of people advocating cards as alt investments or talking about which cards are "worth" adding to your collection, etc. Again, I'm probably just jaded haha

SacKingsCards wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:15 pmNot sure if it's wishful thinking on your part, over-cynicism on my part, or a bit of both

I think you're right that we're heading in the right direction. I don't wanna call out specific people, but I feel like podcasts, IG lives, stories, and even posts are content that are not all that different than what we've seen before. Sure, there's less people selling some sort of product or service, but I still see lots of people advocating cards as alt investments or talking about which cards are "worth" adding to your collection, etc. Again, I'm probably just jaded haha

Yeah it's strange isn't it. When 90's collectors started rejoining the hobby in 2020 I thought for sure they would see through pump/hype game since they basically lived through it, but no.. They just followed along believing their green wave sparkle parallel /149 was an "investment". That was during the boom where things were 10x'ing overnight so maybe they get a pass.. idk..

But nowadays you have all these hyped cards dropping by 90% from the 2021 highs and a lot of the same guys are still talking about "portfolios", "asset classes", etc.. It's just laughable at this point. I have to imagine they're still using those terms because they're holding the bag now..

The points about IG / social media and the talking heads is a good one. Even if these parasitic influencer types are gone, you still have the original, niche influencers around and they're not going to go away...and they're also parasites. I'm talking about Nat and his harem of blood suckers, I'm talking about PWCC and magazines, I'm talking about rich guys who splurge on cards and prop their purchase amounts up as the greatest thing since the invention of air conditioning. Price fixers, fixed MJ a while back, fixed LBJ about five years ago now, these people are still around. They're all interconnected and the vast majority of people just want to belong and worship.

BIN prices and sales prices on auctions on eBay are night and day difference, high BINs sitting there forever, auctions ending for a fraction of BIN expectations.

We have to understand that the main goal of guys figuratively sucking off garyv was to bring in big money like the Nubanis so that they could sell their hyped cards over to them. By the way, if any one of the loaded dudes from "the clubhouse" are chasing a set, don't dream of acquiring anything lol, price just went up pal.

This post was paid for by friends of EBitz.

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:31 am The points about IG / social media and the talking heads is a good one. Even if these parasitic influencer types are gone, you still have the original, niche influencers around and they're not going to go away...and they're also parasites. I'm talking about Nat and his harem of blood suckers, I'm talking about PWCC and magazines, I'm talking about rich guys who splurge on cards and prop their purchase amounts up as the greatest thing since the invention of air conditioning. Price fixers, fixed MJ a while back, fixed LBJ about five years ago now, these people are still around. They're all interconnected and the vast majority of people just want to belong and worship.

BIN prices and sales prices on auctions on eBay are night and day difference, high BINs sitting there forever, auctions ending for a fraction of BIN expectations.

We have to understand that the main goal of guys figuratively sucking off garyv was to bring in big money like the Nubanis so that they could sell their hyped cards over to them. By the way, if any one of the loaded dudes from "the clubhouse" are chasing a set, don't dream of acquiring anything lol, price just went up pal.

This post was paid for by friends of EBitz.

I will say despite my cynical view of things, you definitely have me beat in terms of jaded-ness

SacKingsCards wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 11:24 pm I will say despite my cynical view of things, you definitely have me beat in terms of jaded-ness

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:31 am The points about IG / social media and the talking heads is a good one. Even if these parasitic influencer types are gone, you still have the original, niche influencers around and they're not going to go away...and they're also parasites. I'm talking about Nat and his harem of blood suckers, I'm talking about PWCC and magazines, I'm talking about rich guys who splurge on cards and prop their purchase amounts up as the greatest thing since the invention of air conditioning. Price fixers, fixed MJ a while back, fixed LBJ about five years ago now, these people are still around. They're all interconnected and the vast majority of people just want to belong and worship.

BIN prices and sales prices on auctions on eBay are night and day difference, high BINs sitting there forever, auctions ending for a fraction of BIN expectations.

We have to understand that the main goal of guys figuratively sucking off garyv was to bring in big money like the Nubanis so that they could sell their hyped cards over to them. By the way, if any one of the loaded dudes from "the clubhouse" are chasing a set, don't dream of acquiring anything lol, price just went up pal.

This post was paid for by friends of EBitz.

Love the EBitz reference man lol.

I have to agree with you. Intentionally or not, the hype machine prior to the pandemic did set the stage for the newbies to start paying top dollar for cards those guys had talked and talked about years prior. It’s why we aren’t seeing a drop in certain sets from the 90’s. It’s shielded in a way due to the big spenders with seemingly endless amounts of money buying up everything they can.

There was actually an opportunity to buy 90’s for cheap”ish” early in the pandemic before the hype machine was set in motion. It happened when the guys who hadn’t thought about cards in 20 years got sucked back in after watching a Geoff Wilson video or the like. They were selling rare 90’s stuff so they could buy hyped modern. I was luckily able to pick up a ton of PMGs, rubies, etc.. for my Nuggets teams sets at that time. Stuff that I hadn’t seen in years. It was of course trending up from previous years prices, but not to the levels we started seeing in 2021. I made a blowout post about all that I’ll have to link to once I find it.

EDIT: Found it
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1397170

I think eventually we’ll see 90’s come back to earth. Could be a good number of years away with how propped up it is atm, but the attention it garners will move elsewhere. Or the inevitable reality is the guys who were collecting in the 90’s (myself included) will be replaced by collectors who were too far outside of that era (or maybe just a bit smarter..) to want to blow 2k on a John Starks red PMG.

Theres not enough money to be a "sports card influencer" in 2023.
Everyone remaining is a true fan of the hobby!

mindcycle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:54 am Love the EBitz reference man lol.

I have to agree with you. Intentionally or not, the hype machine prior to the pandemic did set the stage for the newbies to start paying top dollar for cards those guys had talked and talked about years prior. It’s why we aren’t seeing a drop in certain sets from the 90’s. It’s shielded in a way due to the big spenders with seemingly endless amounts of money buying up everything they can.

There was actually an opportunity to buy 90’s for cheap”ish” early in the pandemic before the hype machine was set in motion. It happened when the guys who hadn’t thought about cards in 20 years got sucked back in after watching a Geoff Wilson video or the like. They were selling rare 90’s stuff so they could buy hyped modern. I was luckily able to pick up a ton of PMGs, rubies, etc.. for my Nuggets teams sets at that time. Stuff that I hadn’t seen in years. It was of course trending up from previous years prices, but not to the levels we started seeing in 2021. I made a blowout post about all that I’ll have to link to once I find it.

EDIT: Found it
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1397170

I think eventually we’ll see 90’s come back to earth. Could be a good number of years away with how propped up it is atm, but the attention it garners will move elsewhere. Or the inevitable reality is the guys who were collecting in the 90’s (myself included) will be replaced by collectors who were too far outside of that era (or maybe just a bit smarter..) to want to blow 2k on a John Starks red PMG.

lol, I had to throw that in, I swear he's got tentacles everywhere.

Things were better when sport card collecting was a sleepy little hobby that no one really cared about. These guys have basically set up shop to divert as much funding their own way, for their own sole benefit, while stepping on every one else. There were people buying common junk for insane prices as well, I remember when I sold my Kobe Topps Paper RC for three figures and had to pinch myself a couple times. This whole convulsion from a little hobby in the corner to some hyped up sneaker flipper racket ruined things all across the board...and of course sent prices soaring.

There's the scamming, shilling, the counterfeits and of course the card alteration racket. This whole thing is basically a bunch of ravers going to a rave or big party out in some spot in nature, trashing the place and leaving their empty bottles, wrappers, spare tires, underwear, shoes, vomit, etc., just lying there and then they move on and trash another place. That's what has happened to what was once a fun hobby with a lot of participants because it was affordable for so many people. NOW? Not so much. Turds like PPP sucking "Jackoff Wilson" and his cronies as well as the "clubhouse" who used to post on BO are to blame.

I hope we do see 90s come back down to earth, but there are so many people who overpaid willingly, yet, I don't think they will part with the cards at whatever the current market value is at that time. Especially the hoarders.

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By the way, your pickups are 100% top quality. Amazing turn around. I wonder if I posted in that thread, but I may have slowed down big time at the time the thread was made. SICK Duncans all across the board, Spectrum and Illuminator are top shelf, but also that Dice patch/auto is a monster. I see they reinstated you over at the censorship forums? Am I seeing that right?

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:56 amBy the way, your pickups are 100% top quality. Amazing turn around. I wonder if I posted in that thread, but I may have slowed down big time at the time the thread was made. SICK Duncans all across the board, Spectrum and Illuminator are top shelf, but also that Dice patch/auto is a monster. I see they reinstated you over at the censorship forums? Am I seeing that right?

Apologies I’m just now replying to this.. Appreciate the kind words man! I was lucky to have bought all those graded base cards years ago just grabbing stuff for fun. Who would have ever thought there’d be such a massive run up on common stuff like we saw in 2020/21. Crazy times.

BO had only temp suspended me I believe. I haven’t been back though. I just haven’t felt like continuing to post over there knowing anything I posted could be pulled on a whim. I had actually stepped away from BO for quite awhile during the lockdown as well. The last straw for me was when they started deleting threads where long time hobbyist had the gall to talk about the grifters who had only been around for a year or two. The audacity!

mindcycle wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 3:32 pm

AbraCalabro wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:56 amBy the way, your pickups are 100% top quality. Amazing turn around. I wonder if I posted in that thread, but I may have slowed down big time at the time the thread was made. SICK Duncans all across the board, Spectrum and Illuminator are top shelf, but also that Dice patch/auto is a monster. I see they reinstated you over at the censorship forums? Am I seeing that right?

Apologies I’m just now replying to this.. Appreciate the kind words man! I was lucky to have bought all those graded base cards years ago just grabbing stuff for fun. Who would have ever thought there’d be such a massive run up on common stuff like we saw in 2020/21. Crazy times.

BO had only temp suspended me I believe. I haven’t been back though. I just haven’t felt like continuing to post over there knowing anything I posted could be pulled on a whim. I had actually stepped away from BO for quite awhile during the lockdown as well. The last straw for me was when they started deleting threads where long time hobbyist had the gall to talk about the grifters who had only been around for a year or two. The audacity!

Yeah bro, BO is complicit with the corruption as long as they've got some financial partnership, they will axe your membership and/or delete your threads and posts to censor the truth. I took a look at the forum recently again and it's kinda' dead lol - good for them. I don't blame you for not posting there, aside from the aforementioned, it's the same old discussion over and over again, Jordan cards, Jordan cards, iconic/expensive cards, so on...