What has happened in these 20 years for PMG?

[siuwongkee]

I was suggeted on reddit when I said I have a little collection of Antoine Walker parallels from 97-98 and 98-99, someone told me it would be a fun thing to buy a beckett from the internet and see how much the card was worth. So I did buy one, a 1999 Jan Beckett and quite lucky, it was the first issue we had the price of 1998-1999 UD. (The set I broke too much and forced me to quit the hobby, so I know my collection date was around 98 may/june to 99 feb/march)

Anyways, look into the price guide one things stood out is PMG. It was considered a low end parallels at those days. It priced worse than championship PMG and 98 PMG, and just slightly better than the low end 97 sp authentic profiles 3. Since I was absent since 1999, I know we have alot of expert here whom have collected since as early as 80s (?). So I would like to know when did people start realizing the beauty of 97 PMG?

Thanks

[AbraCalabro]

I was suggeted on reddit when I said I have a little collection of Antoine Walker parallels from 97-98 and 98-99, someone told me it would be a fun thing to buy a beckett from the internet and see how much the card was worth. So I did buy one, a 1999 Jan Beckett and quite lucky, it was the first issue we had the price of 1998-1999 UD. (The set I broke too much and forced me to quit the hobby, so I know my collection date was around 98 may/june to 99 feb/march)

Anyways, look into the price guide one things stood out is PMG. It was considered a low end parallels at those days. It priced worse than championship PMG and 98 PMG, and just slightly better than the low end 97 sp authentic profiles 3. Since I was absent since 1999, I know we have alot of expert here whom have collected since as early as 80s (?). So I would like to know when did people start realizing the beauty of 97 PMG?

Thanks

Well I'm glad someone remembers this.


To answer your question people saw that nat turner and a guy called marc were paying a ton of money for the cards, that's when people "magically realized" they were "beautiful." I'm sure the amount of money to be made had nothing to do with it...that last sentence is sarcasm by the way.

[dengbang]

Player collectors realized the beauty way before the prices became what they are today. Even compared to 2-3 years ago, this entire set went up in value tremendously. The PMG Red MJ was about a $10k in 2015. The 23/100 Red sold for $20k around the same time. Even when there were more eyes on the set in the early 2010's I could have purchased a green Nash for around $1k. Many star greens like Payton and Marbury were selling for a couple thousand. Within the last 5 years is when these cards really started to multiply in value. Slowly grew in the 2000s, gained momentum in the 2010s and it basically exploded in the 2020s.

[GlenRice_90s_Cards]

I will share my experience as someone that chased these cards back in 1998.

They were always popular amongst collectors and were incredibly hard to find. The greens were impossible.....hardly ever showed up for sale.

I don't think it was their beauty that caused the aggressive chase and value increase, but the rarity certainly did.

[siuwongkee]

I was suggeted on reddit when I said I have a little collection of Antoine Walker parallels from 97-98 and 98-99, someone told me it would be a fun thing to buy a beckett from the internet and see how much the card was worth. So I did buy one, a 1999 Jan Beckett and quite lucky, it was the first issue we had the price of 1998-1999 UD. (The set I broke too much and forced me to quit the hobby, so I know my collection date was around 98 may/june to 99 feb/march)

Anyways, look into the price guide one things stood out is PMG. It was considered a low end parallels at those days. It priced worse than championship PMG and 98 PMG, and just slightly better than the low end 97 sp authentic profiles 3. Since I was absent since 1999, I know we have alot of expert here whom have collected since as early as 80s (?). So I would like to know when did people start realizing the beauty of 97 PMG?

Thanks

Well I'm glad someone remembers this.


To answer your question people saw that nat turner and a guy called marc were paying a ton of money for the cards, that's when people "magically realized" they were "beautiful." I'm sure the amount of money to be made had nothing to do with it...that last sentence is sarcasm by the way.

Yes. The supply and demand is very strong. I see more 1997 precious metal gems than any other parallels from the year.

Player collectors realized the beauty way before the prices became what they are today. Even compared to 2-3 years ago, this entire set went up in value tremendously. The PMG Red MJ was about a $10k in 2015. The 23/100 Red sold for $20k around the same time. Even when there were more eyes on the set in the early 2010's I could have purchased a green Nash for around $1k. Many star greens like Payton and Marbury were selling for a couple thousand. Within the last 5 years is when these cards really started to multiply in value. Slowly grew in the 2000s, gained momentum in the 2010s and it basically exploded in the 2020s.

So we can safely say it explodes like all other cards? But the only difference, most of them peak at 2021 and have a significant drop for 50-60%, but this is not the case for PMG.

I will share my experience as someone that chased these cards back in 1998.

They were always popular amongst collectors and were incredibly hard to find. The greens were impossible.....hardly ever showed up for sale.

I don't think it was their beauty that caused the aggressive chase and value increase, but the rarity certainly did.

I personally think how it was serialised has something to do with that. Even to me, I know greens are way out of my league, I have an urge to "participate" if the green cards every pop up at ebay/auction houses. Just find it very funny it explodes like that when 1998 PMG or star rubies do not have the same effect.

And another question I asked b4, I believe e-x2001 now and future have a better appeal on this regard, but maybe the price is not right for auction (I see people get it from private sales) I never see the lower serialised print go on auction. (And I do think if it was serialised to 80/5, it will be more expensive than pmg because now it is like the one ring, when 1 collector finished the sets other can only sigh.)

[AbraCalabro]

I was suggeted on reddit when I said I have a little collection of Antoine Walker parallels from 97-98 and 98-99, someone told me it would be a fun thing to buy a beckett from the internet and see how much the card was worth. So I did buy one, a 1999 Jan Beckett and quite lucky, it was the first issue we had the price of 1998-1999 UD. (The set I broke too much and forced me to quit the hobby, so I know my collection date was around 98 may/june to 99 feb/march)

Anyways, look into the price guide one things stood out is PMG. It was considered a low end parallels at those days. It priced worse than championship PMG and 98 PMG, and just slightly better than the low end 97 sp authentic profiles 3. Since I was absent since 1999, I know we have alot of expert here whom have collected since as early as 80s (?). So I would like to know when did people start realizing the beauty of 97 PMG?

Thanks

Well I'm glad someone remembers this.


To answer your question people saw that nat turner and a guy called marc were paying a ton of money for the cards, that's when people "magically realized" they were "beautiful." I'm sure the amount of money to be made had nothing to do with it...that last sentence is sarcasm by the way.

Yes. The supply and demand is very strong. I see more 1997 precious metal gems than any other parallels from the year.

The time line is basically this, Beckett did an article or two about the parallel set when it first released. It was hyped from there. Then the prices tanked dramatically. After some years, nat turner started to flash his money and went to bidding war with marc / wegotstock99 and individuals who wanted to bleed the hobby dry noticed this. So the hype restarted from there. You fast forward to when scumbag garyv started to bring people into profiteering with sports cards and suddenly there are more rich / wealthy people in sports cards. By this point the hype with PMGs was through the roof, so the big money guys who wanted attention all went after them so they could post on IG and get as many likes and comments as possible, that's basically the history of how they got to this point.

A lot of people didn't care about the PMGs, in the mid 2000s they were listed regularly and sometimes wouldn't even sell. There were / are player collectors who like them, but that's a minority before nat turner and ensuing hype that follow.

This is actually an interesting topic because I'm very curious to know what will end up happening when they get tired of seeing the same old parallels of the same players over years and participation in showing interest begins to wind down significantly. When the big money guys can't get attention anymore and no one cares about the cards they paid a ton of money for, what are they going to do? Are we ever going to reach that point? It happened once post-90s. Can some of these dogs still fool others with deep pockets into paying high so they can be free of the burden of holding the empty bag at the end?

People tend to want what other people want, so when this whole thing cools off, what's the landscape going to look like?

[siuwongkee]

Well I'm glad someone remembers this.


To answer your question people saw that nat turner and a guy called marc were paying a ton of money for the cards, that's when people "magically realized" they were "beautiful." I'm sure the amount of money to be made had nothing to do with it...that last sentence is sarcasm by the way.

Yes. The supply and demand is very strong. I see more 1997 precious metal gems than any other parallels from the year.

The time line is basically this, Beckett did an article or two about the parallel set when it first released. It was hyped from there. Then the prices tanked dramatically. After some years, nat turner started to flash his money and went to bidding war with marc / wegotstock99 and individuals who wanted to bleed the hobby dry noticed this. So the hype restarted from there. You fast forward to when scumbag garyv started to bring people into profiteering with sports cards and suddenly there are more rich / wealthy people in sports cards. By this point the hype with PMGs was through the roof, so the big money guys who wanted attention all went after them so they could post on IG and get as many likes and comments as possible, that's basically the history of how they got to this point.

A lot of people didn't care about the PMGs, in the mid 2000s they were listed regularly and sometimes wouldn't even sell. There were / are player collectors who like them, but that's a minority before nat turner and ensuing hype that follow.

This is actually an interesting topic because I'm very curious to know what will end up happening when they get tired of seeing the same old parallels of the same players over years and participation in showing interest begins to wind down significantly. When the big money guys can't get attention anymore and no one cares about the cards they paid a ton of money for, what are they going to do? Are we ever going to reach that point? It happened once post-90s. Can some of these dogs still fool others with deep pockets into paying high so they can be free of the burden of holding the empty bag at the end?

People tend to want what other people want, so when this whole thing cools off, what's the landscape going to look like?

Absolutely right, people tend to want what other people want, when everybody is telling you what should you want. Like the 2017 Lillie Full Art PSA 10 JP is the to go card for any "serious" modern pokemon tcg collector.

Regarding your anticipation. Assuming the entire driving force is a few big guys. I guess it all end up to what they are doing when they are bored. If they just sealed everything, then in the end these are limited to 10 and 90. For the situation they are selling, if the price is right people will go for the player they like. (Just like if aDuncan ,Penny, Iverson, hill or ray is at 5k, I do not mind to put them in my 90s parallel collection) Yet, even if it is the case, they will not push everything into the market and just tanked it. So they might have a decision to make, do they think if they keep them at a vault and treat it as a long time investment again these are limited, really limited. (Just like some of my friends used to collect watches and wine, they get bored and they either sell it for a small profit and believe in the long time value, some sell and some hold)

Put things otherwise, assuming they chase the card PURELY for the like (I do not think this is the only reason, they can get more likes on many many many other luxury products) when they feel they hit the ceiling, will they KEEP buying different things or they just sell everything for the ATTENTION? My point of view is, they are not idiots, they might drive the PMG and enjoy the hype but at the same time, they might really like it a bit, also believing collecting this has something to do with value adding in future. So in the end, unless they run into money problem, they will likely shift to other luxury items. (Again assuming they do it purely for the likes) But it is likely, they will just keep it until they find someone want to get the attention like them.

In the end, I only collect 90s parallel, I do not care alot about 97 PMG. (I think only a few of them looks nice like MJ and Penny.) Just find it very funny it becomes the number 1 set and the most special thing about the set:

1: It has a green and a red
2: It is like real pmg, very fragile.